fefelix
fefelix
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fefelix
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Hii everyone! I've tried sth new. For me at least :D 30s poses - from photo ref. :( - w/o using any construction lines/ LoA. So the main question will be: Is this gestural? At all? in your opinion. Pleeease critique this, thanks in advance, oke bye.
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Kay Dezenter
Hello, these are my most recent gestures (4th session). Image 1+2 were part of a 1h session after rewatching the first vid (didn't see the others yet). 3+4 after rewatching the first "Flow Method" video. Now that I look at it I think page 1 is alright, even though I do oversimplify. Page 2 is where it kind of starts falling apart for me. Maybe all of this new info overwhelmed me. I tried to apply "force" without really understanding it. I realized this after rewatching it. I then proceeded to ditch stuff like line of action and other concepts in favor of "force". Bad idea. It visibly decreased my confidence, which shows in my lines. Page 4 was, a bit better maybe? The 5 and 10 minute poses seem to be a bit easier to read, but the 20 min one felt awful to be quite honest. I will move on to the demo tomorrow and keep an eye out for stuff like how Stan does limbs and when to simplify shapes. There is also the issue of not knowing how to combine the concepts of Stan and Mike Mattesi instead of treating both as hard rules with no option to combine them. Well, I've got a lot to learn :) I am looking forward to the feedback. :0 (Btw here are some resources I use for practicing: line-of-action.com quickposes.com)
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fefelix
Eyy, these are really good in my opinion!! I can definitely relate with your experiences with force drawing vs. gesture, haha. I think in order to be able to apply force to figure drawing you'll basically have to have eaten up anatomy, bc it's all about muscle functions and muscle interactions there. But it seems trying to use force on less complex subjects such as the bean has really helped your understanding of gesture and weight, so maybe try some more forced beans? Anyways, while I love your longer pose studies, in which, I think, you started with simple """stick figure"""" gesture lines (but with dynamic & flexible sticks!!) and the bean everywhere, I personally like to begin any gesture drawing with these steps. Otherwise I'll risk making the figure fall apart, as it sometimes happens in your 30s poses. Sometimes, with the shorter poses, I believe you treated "weight lines" that contain information about volume and mass as gesture lines, which are about direction and energy. Maybe it'll help you to differentiate between these concepts in your mind? You can often imagine body parts, like the forms of the limbs (especially in relaxed poses), like a piece of cloth on a clothesline. On one side you have a gesture line (=clothesline: forceful, active, strong directional force, withstanding gravity, direction of the bone), on the other side some weight lines (=cloth: saggy, heavy, affected only by gravity (applied force), hanging from the "rope", muscles & fat). I've attached an image explaining a similar concept (but with a different focus) that has some good drawing examples. Hope this helped a bit! Have fun and keep up the very good work!!
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Crimson The Kitsune
5/10/ 2022. First Day back into the swing of things. Gonna need some tips for my quick gesture drawings.
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fefelix
I agree, these are pretty neat. Good idea studying Stan's work. I think your understanding of gesture drawing would really benefit from studying the concept of the bean. And then mannequinization. And then anatomy. And then see how you will have developed. Have fun!
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fefelix
Hi everyone! I've been practicing gesture for a while now and wanted to ask you what you think of these. Sometimes the poses are still falling apart and sometimes the gesture isn't quite there yet. But in general, would you say, these lines convey a sense of gesture and/or weight? What do you think could definitely be improved? What has helped you to understand gesture drawing better (beyond just doing gesture drawing and learning anatomy/ perspective and stuff)? Looking forward to your comments/critiques! Thanks in advance.
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Dirtynka Reee
Hello, i am new here :) Started to watch this course yesterday and trying to practice simple gestures. I am still bit new into learning how to draw i have around month behind me with tablet, before i never focused on how to draw properly, i just copied pictures i liked. Now i am trying to learn how to stand on my own feets in art. This is my work from today, i will be glad to hear some feedbacks. I put 2 minutes limit on each gesture.
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fefelix
Hi there Dirtynka and welcome to your art journey :) I'll leave a few bits of advice that have helped me when starting to learn art: -"art" as a craft describes a complex set of skills, all of which being used simultaneously by an artist when drawing. Following this figure drawing course as a beginner, I got very frustrated: At some point while focusing on gesture drawing only and not even knowing what other drawing basics there are to learn, my learning curve reached its limit and I didn't know why. -> It is a good idea practicing gesture drawing for some time but then also, one by one, introducing yourself to the other fundamental concepts of drawing. Those basics are all (?) tackled in this free online course: https://drawabox.com/lesson/1 if you are interested. If, as a beginner, you try to work on all these different topics alternatingly, you'll unlock new levels in each field much faster, because they all influence each other! -As for gesture drawing itself, I recommend trying out this exercise first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bw3BW4Q6VM&list=PLXkHosWORUv6bxfPGz31WESqw_87adQ5r&index=2 In the video they focus on gesture only in a very exact and easy to understand way. Stan's gesture drawings always contain knowledge of topics that go beyond gesture, such as perspective and anatomy. -Also, on a minor note, changing your drawing media from time to time can be a good idea to stimulate your synapses and steepen your learning curve. I found that for me, drawing digitally provided some limitations in my development. But for a beginner, drawing digitally can be a good idea that takes away some complexity. The most important piece of advice is of course to enjoy the process, not to stress yourself and to take your time! Always keep in mind what drove you to start learning art in the first place and use this thought as a means to boost your stamina while studying! Have fun drawing and all the best Felix
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fefelix
Also I made more sketches trying to invent gestural and slightly exaggerated poses. Critiques, pleease! :) Any comments/corrections on readability, proportions, gesture and shading are highly appreciated.
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fefelix
While I did have a lot of fun doing this, I think the proportions are a bit screwed, right? I tried some forced perspective- foreshortening thing, but, imo, the 2 distal phalanges of the index finger are too big nevertheless? And the thumb's still too small? Highly appreciate your feedback on that matter!
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Alexis Riviere
I'm unsure about the right arm. I feel like the humerus is too short, somehow, but that might also be the foreshortening messing with my brain.
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fefelix
Yes, I think that's the case, too :D For realistic foreshortening, perspective must be applied to the forms! Objects that are farther away from the viewer should appear smaller in comparison to closer objects. For this right humerus, it means that the ellipse at the distal end of the humerus's body should be larger than the ellipse at the proximal end. Constructing the humeral cylinder with a foreshortened box, like the one you correctly constructed for the right hand, can help here. Hope this helps! Have fun studying and keep up the clean linework!
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fefelix
Hey everyone! I added the pec. maior in blue, I hope that's not too distracting :i Anyways, looking forward to your feedback on (breast) anatomy, readability and gesture!
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Sarvesh Gupta
Here's my assignments of the breasts. Feedbacks are welcome!
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fefelix
Hey Sarvesh, I think your drawings are very much going in the right direction! It looks like you are able to tackle all the different anatomical parts of the body. The only thing I see that could be improved here is the "connectedness" of the body. What I want to say is that for some poses (2, 4-7) the models' bodies are falling apart a little. I'd recommend always constructing the three masses/ skeleton first before drawing the muscles. That should also help you getting away from relying on contours (as it seems you did in #2, for example) and focusing more on gesture. In some cases, where you did construct the figure with the 3 major masses, I'd argue that the distance between the 10th ribs and the ASIS/ between rib cage and pelvis is too large. If you look at the reference photos for your drawings 4-7 you might see what I mean when observing the contours/ negative spaces in that section. Other than that I find your drawings quite impressive as well as proportionally and perspectively accurate! You definitely seem to have understood the different aspects of breast anatomy concerning gravity and individuality. I hope you've found this feedback constructive. Have fun studying! Felix
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Zuzu Soltys
Hi, I've done the assignment for pecs anatomy lesson. Feedback is kindly appreciated!
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fefelix
Very clean and easy to read, also all the attachments and general proportions seem correct to me, well done! Two minor critiques: You could achieve more dynamics and energy in your muscle inventions if you showed a bit more relaxation and contraction for each pose. As you can see in the tracings, which you did rather well, the pecs normally don't just hang from the rib cage like a cloth: They bulge out when contracted and stretch thin and straight when relaxed. Furthermore, about your last tracing of Anthony: In this complex pose the directions of the muscle fibres of the sternocostal and abdominal portions are unclear, bc you didn't draw them through where they are being covered by the clavicular portion. It doesn't look like you knew how the muscle forms behave in this section. Also keep an eye out for symmetry: Itn your tracing, it appears that the origin areas for the clavicular portions are not the same on both sides and the abdominal portions seem to vary in size. Here, too, it might be helpful to draw through the forms in order to visualize the exact points where the muscles attach. Then the 3d forms you tried to emphasize around the manubrium, for example, will appear more believable. Hope this helps! Have fun studying. Felix
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fefelix
Hi everyone! In this exercise, I've found it very hard visualizing the overlappings of the pec. maior in a way that shows all muscle directions and insertions while maintaining readability - any solutions for that? Any other feedback and critiques are kindly appreciated as well, of course :)
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palyo
Hi! These drawings are my assignment for this lesson. I've had troubles in drawing the poses from the back/where we can see the back . Any critique/advice is greatly appreciated
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fefelix
Hi palyo, first of all, I like your fluid and energetic gestures! Cool to see, that you're already trying to apply this more advanced topic to your studies. Be careful not to put gesture over proportions, though (in this exercise). In your very lively first drawing the distance between the rib cage and pelvis is too large, whereas it's too small between the rib cage and the head. There are two main things I'd like to criticize: proportions and line quality. In many cases, the proportions of the three major masses and/or the distances between them are off. Try to achieve, that in all of your drawings the length proportions of the spine (cervical: 0.75 cranial units, thoracic: 2 cu, lumbar: 1,25 cu, sacral: 0.75 lumbar / ~1 cu) as well as the proportions of the major masses (you can use the cranial system explained in the figure drawing course, for example) are all correct at the same time. Secondly, your line quality could be higher. Line quality refers to the amount of clarity a line has in depicting something. Using very many lines to represent an aspect of your subject, such as you did for the top plane of the pelvis in your first drawing, for example, makes it very unclear and "blurry" and disables you from understanding its perspective. The line quality in the 5th drawing you submitted is so much better, though!! Try to get it to this level consistently and focusing on perspective will become much easier! One more thing: The angle you drew for the iliac crest in your first drawing is too horizontal. Keep in mind that the crest's posterior three quarters are covered by the external obliques and fat. If you're having a hard time finding the proportions of the rib cage in a dorsal view (a problem which i don't really see in your drawings btw) the landmarks of the 7th cervical and the PSIS can help you. If you've found those, find the attachments of the 12th ribs to the spine by connecting those landmarks via the spine, applying the length proportions mentioned earlier. I hope this helps! Have fun studying :) Felix
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thecookiehero880
Here are my imagined pelvises! Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
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fefelix
Hi again, your proportions seem on point in most examples :) This is why, you could focus less on getting the two-dimensional positioning of contours right and try to really explore and scrutinize the three-dimensionality of individual forms in any perspective. This means that you should not only know, but be able to show that you know, where each part of the object you draw is in any given pose and what its 3d form looks like in that specific perspective. E. g. in your first exercise, your lines roughly determine the position of the right iliar wing, but they neither show its relation to neighboring objects (the sacrum) nor do they show precisely, how perspective is affecting its 3d form. The main concept that you could apply here is specificity: In perspective drawing, any line automatically conveys multiple bits of information about the subject's part it is supposed to represent - position, length, angle to adjacent parts and how each of these aspects is affected by perspective (these are the most important, at least?). Being specific means that upon drawing a line you do not leave the line's statement about any of those aspects to chance: The line will always "say" something about them, so in turn you always have to specify what you want it to say, and draw it accordingly. Think like this: "This line connects the inner lip of the iliac crest with the sacrum at the PSIS. It starts 1/4 pelvic length posterior to the center line i drew earlier; it ends at this posterior edge of the sacrum 1/3 inferior to the top plane. It is partly obscured by the sacrum, so i'll make it less opaque there. Together with three other lines it represents the posterior, superior face of the right iliac crest, which is facing both back and up." Or something like this. Applying this concept to your drawings will give them maximum clarity, so that no information has to be figured out by the viewer themselves. There seem to be some recurring problems in your drawings that might be fixed by added specificity: E. g. the angles of the widths of the ASIS, sacrum and pubic symphysis don't share the same perspective grid in some cases (esp. 3). The form and the relationship to adjacent forms are unclear for the acetabula you've drawn. Of course you could argue that the acetabula are of little importance to the overall proportions of the pelvis, but being specific about them as well helps you to not only understand, but feel the dimensionality and reality of the subject you're drawing. The sacra aren't connected to the pelvis. The beginning and end as well as the curvature of the iliac crest's top plane is unclear. Apart from all that, the ASIS are too far posterior in the first drawing and in the third drawing, many axes don't align with your bucket's perspective. Always stay true to the bucket grid you drew, not only in terms of proportions, but also in terms of perspective! To sum this up really briefly: Proportions = good Form and perspective = some mistakes here Help: Specificity I really hope you'll find this feedback comprehensible and constructive! See you next time :) Felix
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fefelix
Hi everybody, here are some of the assignments I did. Critiques on readability, proportion, perspective and anatomy are welcome :) Thanks in advance.
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Lauren
Tried doing a couple studies. It's starting to get a little easier figuring out what all the bumps and bones are and how they connect. I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how the clavicle and scapula fit on the rib cage once they're not visible or facing forward, especially if theres extreme forward or backward movement, I can make somewhat of a guess, but I'm not sure how to fix it if it doesnt look right. And I think I still confuse a ligament or something for the end of the clavicle or the acromion process. I have a decent idea of how to draw the rib cage I think, but I'm having some trouble with what angle and what landmarks the rib cage is in the photos sometimes.
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fefelix
Hi Lauren, congratulations on your disciplined mindset and furthering your studies on your own! I envy your thoroughness, keep it up :) I'd love trying to comment on your remarks and drawings; but note that the low-res quality of the images you attached makes it hard to assess your studies properly. Maybe try uploading individual pieces with a higher resolution to get a more concrete feedback. Because others don't have access to the images from external sources that you are using, it would be even more helpful if you put opaque versions of your reference images next to the transparent ones you've traced over. In general, for getting the proportions of the shoulder bones right when they are invisible, a few things might be useful to keep in mind / work on: Firstly, the general proportions of the scapula help you getting its size right when ghosting it in behind the body. Scapulae are usually one cranial unit in length (superior angle to inferior angle) and one cranial unit in width (superior angle to acromion). Positioned on a rib cage, the scapulae should be half the length of the rib cage or less, but never more (it seems to me that you tend to make them slightly too large for poses where you can't see them). Don't forget to draw the part of the scapular blade superior to the scapular spine, it's important for getting accurate proportions. Secondly, I recommend always drawing the entire scapular spine as a three-dimensional, curving, elongated box, instead of just a line. Then you should be able to assess the anatomical correctness of your drawings better and also get a better understanding of how the shoulder girdle connects with itself and the rib cage in perspective. Also, in most frontal poses you can still observe the positions of the acromion process as well as the glenoid cavity inferior to it pretty accurately. Starting there and then three-dimensionally constructing the rest of the scapula in connection to these parts might be easier. In order to get more familiar with the position and angles of the lateral end of the clavicula and the acromion process, it really helped me haptically examining this area on my own body. Knowing where muscles attach to the acromion and clavicula is helpful, too, of course. In general, the bony, L-shaped area around the acromioclavicular joint is pretty large, at least larger than I thought at first. Also the acromion is laterally angling down a bit, meaning it's not parallel to the end of the clavicula. Even when the scapulae are levated, the acromia become horizontal at most. Judging from your drawings, though, you seem to get the positions of the shoulder bones pretty accurate, anyways. Maybe just try to construct them more often to get to know their forms better. Hope this could already help a bit; sorry I couldn't give more detailed feedback on your drawings! Have fun drawing and until next time :)
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thecookiehero880
Here is my work for the third assignment! Obviously the linework is atrocious and I'm trying to improve. Any advice on that or anything anatomy wise is greatly appreciated!
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fefelix
If I may return the favor :D The length proportions and size of the spine seem correct everywhere. Also generally a good connection between the major masses. Because you paid close attention to the length ratio of the spine's individual parts, one mistake is occuring in all (?) of your drawings: The position of the sacrum is always a bit off. If you put your drawings on top of the photos you will see that the tops of your sacra don't align with the dimples of the PSIS on the model; instead you have your sacra start consistently too low. Because of that, they also end inferior to where they should. Imagine if the coccyges of the models were actually located this low, they would peak out between their butt cheeks a little :) Their position should actually be less than half the way down the anal fold. I think the reason for this recurring mistake is because of your making the lumbar spine too straight? I think. In your first drawing at least. Obviously you got the actual length of the lumbar right but because it's bent posteriorly pretty far it won't take up that much space. Nevertheless, in any case a sacrum should start at the PSIS and be about one cranial unit in length. Your positioning of the spine seems fine except in your first drawing: As the model's left side is closer to us the left side of the rib cage should be perspectively larger than the right side - in your drawing it would be the model's right side that's closer to us. There's actually not that much of a twisting in the torso as the one you effectively show in your drawing. The model is really only leaning back a little bit and tilting her head forward and to the right. So the only twisting would be happening in the cervical spine (mainly in the Axis / 2nd cervical, though). Lastly, I think that the cranium in your first drawing is a tad bit too large. The rib cage is about two cranial units wide, maybe that can help you as a reference. Hope this helps, looking forward to meeting again further down the path :D
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unpayedintern123
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fefelix
Hey there! Your method of doing a general envelope / gesture drawing of the entire body first is a helpful way to get the general proportions and pose correct. Apart from that I recommend actually constructing the forms of the pelvis and rib cage (if you haven't done so already) using the bucket method for the pelvis and the "boxy rib cage" method from the next lesson. Doing this really helped me understand the 3d forms of the masses and also to pay closer attention to angles and perspective. While, most of the time, you have no problem getting the proportions right (except in dr. 2 where the head is too small, even bearing in mind fore-shortening), you're angles are off or imprecise in many cases. In dr. 5, for example, the rib cage would be angled forward much further, resulting in a more visible top plane. You can get that information from observing the angle between Anthony's right shoulder and the brow line, which should be at almost the same horizontal level. His pelvis, on the other hand, is actually facing to his left side rather than to his right, as you drew it. If you can't determine the angle between the ASIS, you can also look for the angle between the two Greater Trochanters, which equals the previous. In your dr. 3, the rib cage would be angled to the right much further (I think you can see the point where the rib cage meets the waist at the plane change right above Yoni's left hand, but I might be wrong). Also, the head would appear behind the rib cage, resulting in a fore-shortened cervical spine. In your drawing the pelvis is too small (it should be about two thirds the size of the rib cage) because you put the ASIS points inferior to where they should be. In this pose, you can find the left ASIS by following the Tensor Fasciae Latae muscle to its origin. I hope with the image attached, it becomes more clear what I mean. Apart from that, have fun drawing and until next time :)
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fefelix
Hi there, hoping to get these critiqued by you :) I feel most unsure about the first one, any ideas on that?
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Laura Bee
Hi there, my assignment attached! Man it was hard! Feedback welcome.
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fefelix
Hi Laura, I think your way of simplifying the 3d forms is pretty effective and makes the structure easier for you to understand without being imprecise. Good job! In some cases, additional cross contour lines on the spine would clarify its pose. As for the structure and proportions of the spine, to me it seems pretty sound in most cases. Mostly you'll have to work on getting the angles of the major masses right, in your drawings it's this the aspect that's the least accurate. But for this it's probably helpful going through the pelvis and rib cage lessons first. You could already get them more accurate in the first exercise, though, where the major masses are visible. Here, the angles of the rib cage (manubrium and 10th ribs) are off in drawing no. 1 and 4; the angles of the pelvis (angle between the ASIS and angle between ASIS and PSIS) are off for no. 1 and 2. For poses with a twist in the thoracic spine, in order for you to be able to visually understand this motion and its structure, you could try to simplify the thoracic to a long, twisted box instead of a cylinder. Also, sometimes your sacral spine is proportionally too small, it's actually about one cranial unit in length (or 3/4 the lumbar spine). I might be mistaken, but I think you made the lumbar too straight in some cases, resulting in off proportions for the thoracic spine and rib cage. E. g. in ex. 3 no. 1 the lumbar (esp. the superior 2 vertebrae) would be more flexed, moving the lower ribs further down (while the angle of the 10th ribs stays put!). In ex. 3 no. 3 and 9 you got the lumbar flexing right. Keep in mind that the surface line you are seeing on the back of a model isn't exactly the spine, but the spinous processes of the vertebrae. So the position of the spine in your tracing no. 4, for example, would be a little bit anterior. For poses where the spinous processes are very prominent you could include them in your drawings, e. g. in ex. 3 no. 2. Additionally, in ex. 3 no. 2 the torso is tilted downwards much further so you wouldn't be able to see the head popping up behind the rib cage. Hope you still found this helpful, even though you've probably already conquered the whole anatomy course by now :D
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