Prathamesh Pagare
Prathamesh Pagare
Earth
@htinlinarkarr
 Hi, im Htinlin Arkar from Myanmar(Burma).Im 21 now.Since i was kid i always love drawing. At my teenage i didn't draw and wasted my life with games. About 2 years ago i realize my life and i decided to train to become a artist.  In these 2 year i draw aleast 1 to 6 hours daily. I know i am progressing but it really slow and some didn't feel like improving at all.(studying head for about a year and i really can't invent head from imagination/ cant draw figure pose/ inconsistent proportion/line etc) I'm worrying my progress would be slow just like these years and couldn't make my living with drawing. Since i m not wealthy introverted high school drop out with no social connection,plus my country situation, i can't do anything other things.now i can depending on my family but not forever.   So i tried to encourage myself to go out and ask for help. I really need suggestions or advices or help, anything, from you guys. I will try myself to follow to your ways. If possible can anyone mentor me through my art training.🙏🙏🙏
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Prathamesh Pagare
Your studies are amazing! I am from India, and was in a similar situation 3 years ago when I was 21. I would like to pass on some advice that helped me, I met one mentor for a very short period, but he helped me with invaluable advice. He said- 1. no matter what, your hardwork won't go to waste. You just need to be honest about your criticism towards yourself, so if you're overdoing it, do less. If you're underdoing it, be more honest. 2. After you get good at fundamentals, don't let anyone tell you how to do your art. It's your style, be proud of it. So, back then I was 21 and had no social connections, etc. I kept studying, I took a break once in a while too to destress. It's very important to disconnect from your pursuit to basically get a better overall look of where you stand. Eventually, I found Proko, a few other discord art communities, where I was able to work at least 5-6 hours a day and have fun while doing it, since others also join in. So try to have fun, trust the process. Do not compare yourself to big superhero professional artists, I have less than 2 years of work experience and I'm not super happy with my fundamentals still, it's a constant process. It never ends and there lies the fun! It's completely different when you're studying and when you get professional work. There are so many new factors, time saving methods, etc. involved, but most importantly- direction. Art directors, managers, executives guide you into their specific vision. So there's a lot of collaboration that happens I'd assume for others too. Hence it's different from one person doing concentrated studies, I feel like studying without feedback was more stressful for me. If you're unable to get results from head studies, try something new you always wanted to. Try experimenting, and make a couple of serious pieces out of those. For head studies, I think proportions help. Please look up traditional methods of measurements, I love the 2 pencil technique where you measure angles as well as size. It really helps with faces especially, since most of it is just placing the features right. Try larger canvas sizes, make mistakes, and then redo it, but after analyzing your mistakes. Take notes right on your canvas so you remember which mistakes you need to fix next time. For lines, a lot of artists tend to refine their lineart with multiple passes. So if it's wobbly at first with your sketch, that's okay, but try for 2 more refined layers. Look at how other people's lineart works, if you're working digitally - I can guarantee that a professional artist already has their preferred sensitivity setting, their preferred brush settings. Easiest way to try and mimic this is to trace over an artist's drawings, adjust your pen settings, see which gives the closest and most natural result. Tracing is okay when you are studying, but do not rely on it solely, it will take away critical thinking ability. In this case, lineart tracing helps to construct new brushes! I hope you find this encouraging, it is very nice seeing someone from a very similar circumstance to mine, so I was a bit eager to respond here. Please keep working, share your work with others, look at how others are being critiqued. It is a constant process for all artists, I would love to see your work here again! :)
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Kieron Panteli
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Prathamesh Pagare
Gorgeous! Love the dynamic scene
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Kristian Nee
Hey Prathamesh, these are really solid. It really doesn't feel like you're copying Bridgman's strokes more than you should when copying Bridgman. What I'd say is keep going, and maybe loosen up a bit. Do some messy drawings, not every stroke has to be super clear. @Ryan Benjamin has a video called 2 Techniques that Pro Comic Artists use EVERY DAY where he explains how to start loose and tighten a drawing from there. The concepts Bridgman is explaining in his drawings don't have to be done literally. They're more of a suggestion on how to do it. He has another video coming out sometime soon on how to draw super loose and bring it in to a much cleaner drawing. Jim Lee has some great videos on Youtube as well where you can see him starting with essentially scribbles, then making essentially a really solid Bridgman-esque torso Bridgman drawing.
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Prathamesh Pagare
Thanks for the detailed response Kristian, I'll be sure to check out the videos you've mentioned. This is very helpful! I'll definitely try to loosen up a little ^_^
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Yiming Wu
IMO these are already looking quite gorgeous! I like how the pose show the energy!
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Prathamesh Pagare
Thank you so much! I was trying to be conscious of this when drawing.
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Prathamesh Pagare
Greetings Prokosauruses, I've been trying to sharpen up my anatomy skills and this is what I am starting off with, I'd like to know if this is the correct approach- I feel like I was copying too much from Bridgman's strokes. I've watched Proko's video on the matter, but I'd like to hear what everyone else has to say as well. I am referencing Bridgman's Constructive Anatomy book The other image includes some animal sketches I've done following Ken Hultgen's book. At the moment I'm trying to internalize these simple shape patterns, but I don't want to risk overanalyizing as that has led me to lose interest in anatomy before. Critique appreciated, thanks
Prathamesh Pagare
Hey Stan, I have been doing studies of the skull and Assaro head for planes and have noticed a drastic improvement. However, I can never seem to get the likeness down, although I can make the faces look good, just not 1:1 to the reference. Do you think it's important to get the likeness down especially when you're learning, if not, how do you gauge the efficiency of the portrait you've just made and whether it's a step in the right direction? Thanks
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oliver lindenskov
Hey Prathamesh, So I generally think this is looking pretty good with a nice separation of foreground and middle ground. I personally would make sure that I make well-defined shapes and that I filled out every shape completely instead of having white/bare spots that aren't meant to be there. (There are a few in your horses). The reason for this is to train discipline and clarity in communication. If it doesn't make sense you are more than welcome to ask for a clarification 😁
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Prathamesh Pagare
I agree, the horses were definitely tough for me. I've posted my latest study in this thread, by using fewer values I'm trying to focus on just the larger shapes for clarity. I will continue to focus on all the points everyone has brought up. Thanks for your help!
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Prathamesh Pagare
Here's another one I did. It took me about 30 mins though. I should definitely try to speed things up. Thanks everyone for your help, I'll keep updating this thread with new studies when I do them. (the aim is 100s as @Luigi Manese suggested, haha)
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Caeona Murdoch
I think his horses are grouped together moreso, but lookin good!
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Prathamesh Pagare
I agree, their shapes are also very distinct and since the backdrop is so light, they pop more easily even though they're not the darkest elements of the painting, it's such a good piece! And thank you :)
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Prathamesh Pagare
Here's another study I did today, using 2 values as @Lili recommended, so it's monochromatic. I do not know the movie name, but I found it off a reference website and it looked nice. I'm not sure how to analyze this properly, I just liked the lighting and subjects. All I could say is there were big, obvious shapes to the left and clutter below which definitely falls in the light family, and there's a distinct line that separates the 2, the area in the right is far darker. What would be a better analysis? Or is this just a bad ref? Any other tips / critique? Thank you!
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Lili
Hi, I liked your written analises, but I think you got a bit lost in detail. I would suggest more attention to the shapes and simplification. Also the proportioins and placement of the soldiers are a bit off. I played a little with your painting to simplify and make the soldiers pop more. I don't know if you tried this exercise before. For what I've tried, it is best to start with only two values, then tree and then five. Hope this helps =D
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Prathamesh Pagare
Hey, this is actually very useful. Thanks a lot! Yes, I noticed the soldiers were a bit off later on. Thanks for the paintover, I was debating which value to use for the backdrop. I have never attempted this exercise before, this was my first try, I will use fewer values and then go over to 5. I have one more question, as you can see my horses don't exactly correspond to the image, especially the 2nd (from the left) rider and his horse. How do you think I should simplify these complex objects? I haven't tried sketching them out yet, I mostly only use brush and erase tool to create my shapes.
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Prathamesh Pagare
Here's a quick value study I did of John J Park's artwork. The instructions I had received: Use 5 or less than 5 values, look for curves, straights, patterns and other design elements. I was not supposed to render anything so I tried not to do that. Which areas can I improve upon? Thank you
Prathamesh Pagare
I struggled with this for a long time and to an extent I still do. The best way to overcome it has been Uncomfortable's tips on mark making. For line exercises, chart out 2 points, then in one motion- go from left to right / right to left, whatever's comfortable for you. The goal is to think about getting to the other point as closely as possible, without too many twists or turns. It doesn't have to be a really swift gesture, it can be slightly slower, but not too slow as that causes lines to wobble. For circles and curves, the whole 'drawing with your shoulder' principle comes into play even more. Draw big, not too small, this helps a lot. Another thing is, we often tend to just draw in circles, or lines, for practice work, but that's not the goal. In my opinion the goal is to think about it, self-correct and push yourself further. A few pages full of well thought out practice vs 20 pages of just drawing circles or getting quick lines done has a significant difference. Lastly, don't be too hard on yourself if you can't do it perfectly. The more you consciously think about it, even if it's not your practice work, maybe you're drawing for fun, you'll eventually get better on your own. Have fun!
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Luigi Manese
Great work and great questions @Prathamesh Pagare. One piece of critique that I wanted to give, outside of the question that you had, was that your silhouettes seem a bit too similar. Most of them are one large rounded shape for the body, with a smaller circle for the handle. In terms of varying up shape design, the one that stood out the most would be the bottom right. I think it would help to look at design references outside of teapots to add some variation. You pointed out a bird motif for the spout on pot 1. This is great to be aware of, but also, you could push that bird motif to just make some crazy shapes that would make your teapot really unique. Since you are just experimenting in the silhouette phase for these, don't be afraid to try some thing wacky that might not work. As you said, these are only 5-10 minute designs anyway, so scrapping a failed design isn't a huge deal. For your questions about the material sphere, you definitely want to make sure the lighting is working really well if you're going to use it as your paint reference. I did a brief paint over where I adjusted the values to make your shadow area a bit darker, and fixed the shape of the terminator, just so that there is a more clear definition of the light and shadow areas. On top of that, I punched down the bounce light a bit. In your original image, the bounce light was so strong that it was hard to tell what areas were in the light and what areas were in shadow. You definitely want the light on the sphere to feel solid, and this way, you can pick and choose colors/values on specific planes to apply them directly on to your final painting. Hope this answered your questions, let me know if there was something that I didn't make quite clear, or if there is something I didn't fully address. I currently don't work in the industry, so I don't fully know what you'd need to provide on a material sphere when handing this off to a 3-d artist. I focused my critique to give you information that will help you as you take one of these silhouettes to a finished painting. Cheers!
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Prathamesh Pagare
Thank you so much for your feedback! I couldn't see this in time and went ahead and finalized a design which you will find attached in this comment. Upon reading everything here I did go back and try out new designs. I used the Met Museum's library to come up with ( what I think ) were some really cool designs. If someone hadn't told me to look outside of teapots I never would've thought of it, thank you so much. Your suggestions on the material sphere and the paintover is also very helpful, I have to understand value control and lighting better, as you'll see in my image attached below. Thanks once again!
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Prathamesh Pagare
Hey everyone, I'm trying to work on my design skills some more along with my fundamental training. I'd like to know more about the concept design process from peers here as well, instead of just online tutorials. I tried to spend as little time as possible on each of these, so I spent around 5-10 mins coming up with each design. I picked a simple topic, prop design for games- an ancient, eastern, fantasy kitchen table set of sorts in line with The Elder Scrolls' fantasy artstyle. I started with a teapot. I'd like your feedback and guidance with respect to design work before I go forward, particularly on how to render materials (or in this case a material sphere) for the 3D artist, and for my own reference when I begin to paint it out.
Seth Forbes
1st thing you should do is pick 3 games/game studio you would like to work at to FOCUS what fundamentals you should work on to get to that level. Use artwork from those games/studios to compare to your work to formulate YOUR learning programme because every artist has varied knowledge/experience. From looking at your work I'm not sure what your focus is as far as being a concept designer because your work is both limited(you need more artworks), and unfocused. While it's fine to draw different things it will slow down you're learning if you stretch yourself out too much. But as a quick start I think you should practice FORM and work on your VALUES. I tried doing a quick example with your 1st piece.
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Prathamesh Pagare
Hey Seth, thanks for the pointers and your insight. Focusing on which style I want to recreate, as far as game studios are concerned is a great idea. I'll keep this in mind going forward. I definitely need to work on my form and values. Your paintover is highly appreciated. It's so obvious my values are all over the place when I look at your version. I'll give these areas more thought. Thank you so much! I will come back with better and more artworks soon!
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Dan B
My question would be: which videogames? Pick your favourite ones in your favourite style and say "that's what I want to create." Then try and copy those things you like most and hopefully you'll start to get an idea of where your gaps are: perspective, colour, form, shading, digital tools, etc. I struggle a lot with the same thing in not being able to focus my learning curriculum, because I don't have an end goal that's clear :/ Seeing as you somewhat appear to have that, work backwards from where you want to be and build your curriculum to fill out your skills (while still practicing fundamentals!) to get there. Sorry I can't give specific advise as I'm early down that road too, but I hope this helps still. For specific feedback on your examples here, the thing that stands out most to me is light and shadow. Where's the source light? The tree in the cafe scene has a tiny shadow below it, but the tall pot-plant has a shadow to the left. I'd also think about composition. What's the focus of that scene? The figure in the monolith pic has a dark shadow, but looks to be already standing in dark shadow, yet the monolith has a very light shadow (I think) behind it. In the second last pic, the building on the right is leaning very heavily toward the giant, I'm not sure the perspective should be that severely angled. You certainly have a solid base going and cool ideas :)
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Prathamesh Pagare
Hey Dan, that is definitely a good question and possibly a fun discussion! (Guild Wars 2, Larian, Gris, Hollow Knight) The only reason I haven't tackled my favourite games' artstyle so far is that they seem too good to recreate. That said, what you said about filling in the gaps makes a lot of sense. You're absolutely right about the light and shadow. I was too focused on nailing the perspective in that piece and ensuring there's nothing noticeably wrong with the placement of my objects, so the actual values and light and shadow ended up being an afterthought. The miniature city pic was the most challenging perspective drawing I've picked up, and it clearly shows. I'll work on these concepts some more before I challenge myself with these large pieces. Thanks for your insight and kind words, I appreciate it quite a bit :)
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Nate
Going back to the basics is never something to be ashamed of. Skilled pro artists practice fundamental skills all the time. That said I understand where you are coming from. It can be frustrating to feel like you have plateaued in your training due to lack of focus. This won’t solve your structure issue entirely but when you attempt a more complex painting or project, evaluate its strengths and weaknesses, get feedback from the community, then use that feedback to understand where you need the most practice. That way, you will have a subject to focus on even if you are going back to a basic skill. Aside from that, you can always get structure from taking a course, whether it is online or at a local studio/college. Anyway, keep up the good work. You are well on your way!
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Prathamesh Pagare
Hey Nate, thanks for the kind words. This makes sense, I should get cracking on the whole community feedback thing; just haven't settled on a place yet. A few well-known communities I've been a part of were mainly focused on traditional, or fine art feedback. I'll keep it up!
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RItesh Dhande
thats strange... i never go back to basics after learnt... maybe this is because you havent done enough practice... or the most stupid thing i did last year was skipping the initial stages and directly jumping... like in a portrait, i should first start with marking proportions, then base color, then slowly structuring it... sometimes this gets boring, but if i skip this steps... my drawing wont result good.... whenever i draw with patience the result is good... and sometimes we have a bad day................
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Prathamesh Pagare
Hey ritesh, I feel you, I have skipped the initial stages many times before and it's completely set me back a few times. This time I'm determined to do it right. Thanks for your feedback and sharing your experience :)
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Gabriel Kahn
Hey there! I'm pretty sure that's because you just don't practice the fundamentals enough. You're not in a hurry ;) Make sure that as you learn, put your newly acquired knowledge to use (i.e. if you are learning perspective, make a painting that heavily relies on perspective, and so on). Keep up the good work! :)
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Prathamesh Pagare
Thanks for your feedback Gabriel! I don't think it's for lack of trying, but clearly the way I have been trying to apply my fundamental practice's knowledge is not efficient. I will work on that as you have suggested :)
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