Eli
Eli
Germany
still learning~
Izak van Langevelde
When working out your lighting setup, it may help you to separate it from the drawing, that is to play with a light source to see how you can light your hand so its form in space shows up the way you like it. Shoot a reference, and then draw your hand using the reference.
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Eli
4mo
alright i will try that! thanks!
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paytoe
Hi,you have done a really good job so far,as far as shading I notice that the line separating the wrist from the arm might be a little too dark….unless you make the arm darker.Also the thumb is bit too long ,take a look at the angle of the drawing compared to your hand again.That is what sticks out to me so far.
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Eli
4mo
thanks for the feedback! :)
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Vincentius Sesarius
I see you struggle, and I guess that's because you missed one basic fundamental in shading. Before we decide to shade anything, it's important to know and be sure about the lighting setup and where the main light comes from. It seems to me that you haven't been sure about either of them. What you did was neutral form shading, that is the shading which result from the nature of the form (things that is farther from our eyes become darker and things that are closer become lighter). But you haven't involved the lighting into the form, and that will make your drawing look rather flat. So I will advice you to try to decide the lighting first, then we can talk about shading further.
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Eli
4mo
Hi Vincentius, thanks for the feedback, very helpful! I do wonder tho, should i apply neutral form shading anyway, before or after i start putting direct light on it? I figure the neutral shading would be a result of ambient light, but direct light would overtrump these neutral form shadows. So i guess direct light > neutral form shadow? I've seen some processes in digital, where they would subtly shade the forms first (under neutral ambient light) and then, on a new layer, added the direct lights - however, i guess thats not how you would do it traditionally, am i right? Arrrghh... I feel like i understood the principals and rules, but i've seen so much processes and techniques that im left very confused... :/ Thanks for your expertise and help!
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Crystal Blue  (she/her)
Hmm... maybe you could try cell shading first, to separate the dark areas and the light areas, then add gradients within the cell shading and add details. This could be helpful to make sure that the darkest value in the light area is lighter than the lightest value in the dark area (right now it looks like the details on the fingers are darker than the shadows on the sides of the hand). I hope that helped, if you have any questions, please ask!
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Eli
4mo
thanks! thats great feedback i will try ! :)
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Tristan Ortega
I noticed that your shadows are too light. I recommend you to add more contrast, so you'll have a larger range of value to the halftones. Also, you need to know the secondary shapes of the object. Some parts in the palm of the hand are round. You have to show that roundness with halftones. In fact, you need to know how to shade the three simple forms; spheres, cylinders and boxes.
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Eli
4mo
Thanks for the feedback. l guess should go through the shading process of simple forms again before i jump back into complex drawings.
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Vincentius Sesarius
You're on a good start! The thing about charcoal is that they're really fun to use at some time, but at some other time they can also be frustrating. It's normal though because the nature of charcoal itself is more punitive than graphite. Charcoal smudges, and doesn't get erased as well as graphite. So the key to using charcoal successfully is to layout the separation between light and shadow first, or 'form' as we call it. Only after that, it'll be easier for you to know where you should put the charcoal on. The common mistake people make in using charcoal is that they jump too early, and end up erasing and smudging the charcoal all over the place. In the end, the piece looks dirty. As I can see from your work, it's still in line art phase, thus I will say it's a bit early to introduce it to charcoal. I will advice you to take some more time to understand the form better. I've attached a sketch over on how I approach form of the figure. You see, I only separate it into two areas, one is light and one is shadow. That's the simplest form. By doing this, I can clearly see where I should put the charcoal on, and where I should stop and keep the paper clean. Check out Stephen Bauman, he's really good at presenting form, and how to shape them with clean and clear strokes.
proko comment 017
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Eli
4mo
Hi @Vincentius Sesarius , thank you so much for the feedback and the sketch, it is super useful! I have one more question: I tried to figure out the halftones and the reflected lights (see attached img) however i kind of struggle to seperate them from the shadows. Are there even that many halftones in it? Since the key-light is very bright and directional there aren't so much soft transitions, more than hard edges and direct conversions form light to shadow... i think...? But i feel like i need to identify these nuances better if i want to paint them thoughtfully and not just "copying" the values from the reference :/ Also i need to redraw my lineart, now that i have seen how impressivly dynamic your's is looking.
halftones
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Eli
added a new topic
Help with shading
4mo
I tried to draw my hand from live, and now im stuck with the shading process. Any tips how to push it further? I tried to apply some shadows to the bigger forms and some cast shadows of the fingers. However i fell they get easly mixed up with half tones and are not very clear to read. (especially on the fingers) Is there any somewhat "neutral" shading approach of a hand that just makes it more 3-dimensional or do i have to think of a more dramatic light set-up (or shoot refernce)? Looking forward for feedback! also, please feel free to point out anything else you notice :)
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Christopher Tomley
I'm a total beginner myself but I've just started a similar project. I just went for it with charcoal and I've loved the process so far. I'd highly recommend some paper stumps (not sure of the official name) they really help for blending.
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Eli
5mo
Thank you for the advice! i will defentely check it out! :)
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Eli
Wow those are soooo nice! I love your attention to details and even the small bounce-lights. Especially the girl with the cowboy-hat! did you use foto-reference?
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Eli
5mo
Hi folks, I did this sketch of a portrait with graphite pencil and am now planning to value it out with charcoal. Is this even a good process for beginners? Or should i start with charcoal right away? Would you recommend put some more details in the sketch, or some hints for shading etc.? If you want to point out any general critique on the sketch, please feel free :) Also, it feels like she is looking to the side, rather than into the camera like in the ref. and I can't figure out why?! ':D Sorry for all the questions <3 Thank you in advance!!
charcoal critique
Steve Lenze
Hey eli_e, The last drawing is pretty cool, it's the best of the three. Your idea of looking at perspective is right on, and I can see that you struggled a little. I did some draw overs to show you how you can design the shapes in perspective. I hope you find it helpful :)
pose
boxes
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Eli
5mo
Hey Steve, thanks a lot for the feedback and your draw-overs. This is very helpful! I will try to think more about the position of the cylinders (limbs) in space, aswell as the overall perspective. And the tip with the underware-shape is very useful, i will try to apply that. Thanks again for your time! :)
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Gabi H
These are great! The one thing I found was that, for the second image, you payed attention to the overall perspective (which is great), but since the cylinder for the front leg isn’t facing completely down, you’d see part of the bottom plane. I think you did the same thing in the first image (with the front leg also). I drew over the second one, hope it helps! Also, I believe you’ve mixed up the C-curve with cross contour lines. The lines you’ve drawn on the form to show its direction and shape are cross contour lines and C-curve is usually to describe a gesture. You’ve got the right idea though! The cross contour lines, in this case because you drawn cylinders, are ellipses. So your observation about how open or how wide they are, depending on the horizon line, are correct! Great drawings! I hope this helps.
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Eli
5mo
Hey Gabi, thanks for the feedback and your draw-over! it helps a lot! Thank you for the clarification about c-curves and cross contour lines. I just called them c-curves because of their shape.... haha
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Eli
My feedback is just that this looks super awesome and i love it! Especially the lighting and the storytelling. I love the stern expression of the eagle while his gesture is so kind and wholesome. Is the feather meant to convey magical powers or something to the boy? I would love to hear your interpretation of the story (the og-one :D)
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Eli
Hey Community, I tried to practice some body-construction in the right perspective using boxes and cylinders. I always drew bodys more "intuitive" (maybe with some ellipses and some landmarks) and was quiet happy with that, however i noticed when it comes to more extreme angles and perspective i start to struggle. So i tried to approach the body with more geometry and perspective (like a lot of pro's seem to recommend) HOWEVER, i kind of struggle with those c-curves on the cylinders. Maybe someone want to check my drawings and look over my vague assumptes and guesses i wrote in :D Also i would like to know if i did that exercise even correclty and if its useful at all, since i find it queit challenging to switch the method from intivutive/memory-like to gemotry... Im excited for any feedback! (Also sorry for my poor english, and sorry i wrote Cylinders with Z - its the german word it...^^)
Figure Geometrie Studies 01
Figure Geometrie Studies 02
Figure Geometrie Studies 03
Gino Datuin
Hi, great sketches! I'm no expert by all means. However, the way I would approach this is to practice using reference from photos or life to break down complex forms into simple forms and shapes. For faces I study the Loomis method, Asaro head, and Reilly rhythms. I find that this helps me when trying to translate complex imaginary characters, objects, monsters, trees, etc. in my head on to paper. And study how light and shadows affect these forms. And understanding the subject your trying to imagine. Eventually, I would hope, you'd be able to see the simple shapes in your head without drawing them on paper real-time when creating something from imagination. I'm working on this as well. It's tough. I guess in its most simplistic way, draw as much as you can from reference, break complex forms down into simple forms, then try doing it without reference. Easier said than done, but it's all part of the process! Happy drawing!, Gino
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Eli
6mo
Hey Gino, Thank you! I will defently check out more of Asaro head and Reilly rhythms, as i im just used to the loomis-method and maybe i can learn something new. I really like your artworks and i think i can learn a lot from them! Also i like the shape-painting stlye, do you even draw with lines when painting a portrait?
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Gabriel Kahn
Hey there! Good job so far. To answer your question: it is not reference OR imagination, it's reference AND imagination. It is immensely hard - especially as a beginner - to draw practically anything without reference. Whenever you work on something look for references for your subject. After that you can incorporate anything you would like, that's the place for your imagination. Nature has already done its thing, you don't have to reinvent it. Instead integrate it into your drawings. Even if you draw in a very stylized way you should always use some realistic elements to keep your drawings interesting. The reason you make more mistakes when you are drawing from reference is simple... You don't make more mistakes, but since you have a reference that is 'correct' you will notice your mistakes much more frequently, while if you don't use any you have nothing to compare your drawing to. Hope I could help! Keep up the good work! :)
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Eli
6mo
Hey Gabriel, thank you very much! i will defenetly take your advice to heart and practice more from reference :) It makes a lot of sense how you describe it, especially the noticing the own mistakes. I just hope i didn't pick up too much wrong habbits, because i drew a lot from imagation... :'D
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Luigi Manese
Hi @eli_e I think Steve hit the nail on the head by pointing out that the structure of your head drawings should be made more solid by making sure the features are all lined up in perspective. Additionally I think doing a few loomis heads without any features (just showing the structure) could help remedy this. Also, you really did pick some difficult angles to draw the head from (especially that one of the figure looking straight up). It might be beneficial to work with simpler angles like looking at the head straight on, and then at a 3/4 view, etc. for the time being. I'm also curious which one of these are from reference and which one is from imagination? It's hard to tell right now (which I suppose is good because that means your work looks consistent either way) but I feel like I might be able to address your question knowing this, however I do find that to be pretty strange haha. I'm sure you already know that most people have the opposite issue. It could have something to do with your confidence in just drawing from imagination but I'm not entirely sure. In some ways that might not be a bad problem, who knows Hope you found this helpful! Let me know if there is anything that I can clear up for you
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Eli
6mo
Hey @Luigi Manese Thank you for your feedback :) The bottom right one (marked with "i.") is from imagination, the other three from reference. I guess i still feel much more comfortable to draw from imagination, because i draw like that almost all the time. (i know, i know... i should really draw more with reference, if i want to improve :D) I will focus on more loomis-structure, but is there any better way in practicing those difficult angles? Because i feel like the loomis-mehtod doesn't work so well, as the horizontal lines (eyebrows, nose, mouth, chin) are foreshortened and i can't divide them in quarters anymore (does that make any sense? :D) Or is it just practice practice practice, until i remember their correlations in the different angles? Thank you again! You professionals are all so kind for looking at such beginner stuff <3 (your art is amazing btw!)
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Steve Lenze
Hey eli e, These are pretty good for a newbie, you picked some difficult angles. The main problem your having is that none of your features are lined up. It would help if you practice the Loomis head, you can find them on line if you don't know what that is. Also Proko did a free video of it on his youtube channel. I did some draw overs so that you can see what I'm talking about. Hopefully this helps, keep drawing :)
faces
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Eli
6mo
Hey Steve, Thank you so much for your feedback and your draw overs! This helps a lot :) I did know the Loomis-Method already, but as you pointed out, defently can't apply it in more extreme angles and its hard to deal with the foreshortened lines. I guess i will try to practice some more of those loomis-heads. Thanks again! :)
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Eli
Hello :) I did some rough portrait studies (3 with reference, 1 without). Maybe someone can point out where i should improve/focus on. i feel like i make even more mistakes (in terms of anatomy/proportions) when drawing with reference, compared to them when drawing without. But why...? Also happy about genreal feedback. Im rather a newbie to Art stuff but want to improve so please dont hold back :) Thanks!
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