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4yr
Liandro
Hey, Beta testers! I've been hanging around the community for about a week and I'm willing to give some feedback for those of you who need help with the assignments. I see Stan already replied to a bunch of posts, and I've already replied to some, too, but some of the older ones may have been lost in my feed. Anyway, if there's anyone out there who asked for help and didn't get any response so far, if you'd like me to comment, please tag me in your question and I'll see what I can do for you! Happy studies :)
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Christopher Lebreault
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I've started the portrait course (yay!) I'm doing the 100 Loomis assignment.Looking for some advice. 1. I tried to have them progressively turn more to the left, but I feel they are all the same. Any advice on this? 2. I understand the chin is a 1/3 drop nose, but I am having difficulty with this. More specifically: where the line should be, how long it should be, how to connect it to the "cranium" Thanks in advance!
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Liandro
@Christopher Lebreault Nice work! To make the head look more turned to the side, you need to draw the centerline of the face closer to that side. So, to make it look more turned to the left, push the centerline closer to the left edge of the head. Also, that "side cut" will change: try making it more circular when the head is more turned to the side, and more squished as the head turns to the front. About the chin: try to do it by "eyeballing" for now - draw it in a way that "looks right" to you. Just keep in mind the following guidelines: . The chin width is about the same as the width of what the lips should be; . The jaw line has a "corner" that sits at about half to 2/3 down from the line of the base of the nose; Over time, your intuitive notion for this should improve. Also, as you progress with the course, you'll get more information on the proportions. Hope this helps!
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Jesse Tinajero
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Dear Community, Proko and Friends, My name is Jesse I am an older person in my my 50 s I have always had a knack for drawing but have never been financially able to go to art school, so I depend on online tutorials. My skills are lacking, I dont know about shadowing but I do know how to draw with a reference and as a high schooler I was very good at it. I did take some high school art classes but at the time art was never really a profession that had very many dedicated art professionals to teach like there are today. So I learned what they felt like teaching. I have always loved drawing the human body but dont know where to start either with Prokos Anatomy course or the human figure course, can anyone share there expertise with me as to what I should begin with first. I would really like to learn how to be a good anatomist before I get too much older and the pencil becomes to heavy to hold up. I do know medical anatomy very well having been a respiratory therapist for 25 years, and a professional T-shirt airbrush artist for over 30 years. please share your thoughts. Thank you Jesse from El Paso, TX.
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Rob Rodriguez
Same here. So what did you end up studying first? What would you recommend now?
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Jesse Tinajero
thank you teresa I appreciate your time and advice. have a Merry Christmas and a Super Happy New Years.
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TeResA Bolen
Hi @Jesse Tinajero . I'm chiming in agreeing with @Liandro Roger and @Jesper Axelsson . I've heard Stan discuss this in multiple places, definitely figure drawing first, then anatomy which will build on top of your knowledge and skills developed in the figure drawing. It will probably go faster than you think, given your experience as a pro T-shirt airbrush artist. Also, pencils are much lighter than an airbrush, so you don't need to worry about a pencil becoming too heavy. ;-) Another thing I would do if I were in your position right now is I would make a schedule for myself, how much time to spend working on drawing each day - I think Stan recommends 1-2 weeks per lesson, then moving on - and I would post here (at those lesson points) like crazy for Liandro to help you. We are so lucky to have him here right now, to have the opportunity to go beyond the video tutorials and get help with the things we really need! Especially the things we don't see for ourselves, or things we see, but don't know how to fix. Good luck! Looking forward to seeing how it goes for you :-)
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Jo Sheridan
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Hi Liandro, how are you doing? I hope things are still OK for you in Brazil... we have hit the rainy season in the UK. I walk my dog early, across fields near my home in the dark (with my head torch) and we are ankle deep in mud and it will likely stay that way until March... sigh... Anyway - finally, my first attempt at creating something with watercolours - The thought of trying to get skin colour right was too intimidating - so I went for a kind of concept art approach - a new take on an image I love from The Lord of the Rings - I don't know if you know these films, but this shows an army of bad guys marching out to battle - I found a little sketch to work off and I took a photo of my tv screen when I was playing the DVD to get some colour reference - I am uncovering a real love of melancholy in my colour choices - although I had to finish this with some pastels to get any sort of brightness into the colours. I only have a few watercolours so was trying to make my dark greys with brown and blue with a bit of red and green and it was very difficult to get much variation. My other big error was not to leave enough white paper, once you lay down any paint - no matter how transparent - the brightness is lost. I would love to hear what you think of it - particularly about the kind of textures I ended up with in different places and any tips for stopping things just getting darker and darker when working with watercolour. I have uploaded two versions - one photographed in daylight and one under artificial light - I was really interested in the way that they came out so differently - I almost prefer the "dark" one, but it does lose the colour variation which I worked so hard to introduce... I am having a go at doing this in photoshop also, but this is a bit learning curve too, as I am starting right from the basics with this software...
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Liandro
Hey, @Jo Sheridan, this is really cool! Both versions look interesting to my eye. Since you asked about the textures, I actually really like the result of mixing watercolors with pastels - I like “moist” effect of the pastel strokes, they seem to harmonize with the watercolor washes underneath. The “dark” version does have less color variation, although I also sense a bit more unity in its composition since it’s more monochromatic. I’m not an expert in The Lord of the Rings, but I’ve watched the movies and I’m familiar with the overall story. This scene you chose as a reference has an eye-popping composition, it’s really stunning. Your choice for changing the scene’s perspective makes me feel like there is a bit more distance from the action (in there reference, it almost feels like we’re inside the march). Not that it’s a problem to give it more distance, it’s a different point of view and can be done intentionally. Although, for composition sake, I feel like your drawing perhaps could have some more foreground elements to help us better perceive the scale of the elements into the distance. It could be maybe some rocks, or some old statues, some breaking waves from the water below, or anything else that’s much closer to the viewer and help us notice how far away everything else is. In the reference, notice how the perspective of the bridge and the army really shows the deep space and makes the temple look absurdly monumental; since your composition has a less contrasting perspective, I think this effect is getting a bit softened. Another thing I’m definitely not an expert in is watercolors - sorry! I really don’t know how to help you with the issue of things getting darker and darker. Personally, one of the reasons I find watercolor fascinating is because it looks so simple, but it’s actually so complex to handle. All I’m able to do right now is play around with it once in a while, just for fun, certainly never getting too technical and almost always messing things up! :) Hopefully, I’ll be able to learn the techniques properly someday. For now, I’m almost always sticking with Photoshop, which (oddly) is much more comfortable to me than traditional painting. By the way, since you mentioned you’re learning Photoshop, perhaps you’d like to check out http://www.ctrlpaint.com, it has a large and free art-geared video library about digital painting in Photoshop, and some of the videos are focused on beginners. Walking on the mud doesn’t sound pleasing, I’m sorry! :) We’re starting to get some quick rainy showers here in Ceará, the state where I live, although I think the heavier rain season shouldn’t come around until January or February. The good news is that the heavy rain season here is very important for the people who live in the countryside because it helps agriculture, although for us, at the capital, it's a bit of a mess because a lot of the streets get flooded… but the rain also helps dial down the winds a bit, so, when it stops, the weather gets better for surfing, which I like! :D Anyway, hope you find my comments helpful! By the way, I notice you’ve been sharing your artwork here in this topic I created, but you can feel free to also post your work in other parts of the community, such as in the “Share” category, or even create your own topics in the “Learn” category. And if you’d like me (or actually anyone) to be notified about posts you make anywhere on the site, simply tag with @ Hope this helps, keep up your good work!
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Jo Sheridan
Asked for help
Hi @Liandro Roger - I hope things are OK with you , things here in the UK are getting out of hand again - I am so grateful that I discovered drawing to see me through these crazy days - it was about a year ago when I first watched "The Hobbit" and bought two "Middle Earth" sketchbooks full of concept art by Alan Lee and John Howe that all this started, and I think I would be lost without it! Anyway, I was keen to know what you think of my latest drawing - this is of my son (you've now met all my family! ) I found the basic structure much easier to settle on drawing at this angle, although I am still unsure whether the eye is really in the right place... I enjoyed doing the headset more than I expected, and spent the last few hours working mainly with my eraser, pulling back the shadows to try to make his face more rounded - I definitely made it better - I would be interested to know if you think I went far enough... (I've not forgotten about the watercolours, it took me a long time to settle on something I wanted to paint, so I'll give that a try over the next few weeks.) Thanks as always for your time and attention. Jo.
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Liandro
Hey, @Jo Sheridan, I'm doing well, thank you! Here in Brazil we haven't reached a second lockdown yet, but I suppose we're heading towards it, it's probably just a matter of time... Hopefully all this pandemic craze will start to soften soon. It's great to know you've also been able to find strength in your art! I had no idea drawing was such a recent thing for you, your work makes us think you've been drawing since forever. I think you did really great with this one! I see absolutely nothing that comes to me as misplacement. Actually, your observation skills amaze me - you nailed it on the likeness, and I came to wonder if you used any tracing technique because the proportions and angles in the drawing are really really close to the photo. I would be no problem if you did, a lot of artists do, but I got to layer the drawing on top of the photo on Photoshop and I assumed you didn't, you're just really good at drawing from observation. :) I think you also did and amazing job with the hair texture and, yes, the shadows and lighting edges, it all looks so well treated. If anything, something that came up to me as I flipped from the drawing to the reference photo is that there is a very subtle difference in the overall head proportions which I think makes your son look about 2 or 3 years older in the drawing than in the photo (in the drawing, the cranium is a tiny bit smaller compared to the face length). Since that shadow edge on the cheekbone is also a little bit less soft in the drawing than in the photo, there is a feeling of a stronger bone structure, which I think helps add up to this "age difference". Just something I noticed, although I don't think any of it is an issue at all, your drawing looks awesome and totally stands on its own in my opinion. You have a "family portraits" series now! Despite the fact that your older drawings already looked great, I notice quite some progress and refinement over time when I look at all the drawings you shared so far. Not sure if you had noticed that already, but your time spent drawing is visibly paying off and improving your technique. Congrats on that and keep it up! Hope this helps! And if you'd like to share other thoughts or questions, feel free to do so!
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Jo Sheridan
Asked for help
Hi Liandro, hope you are doing OK, looks like you have been busy with your cartoons... I had a go at the figure drawing challenge that Stan put up for September. It felt a much less precise process than the portrait drawing I've been doing as the "need to capture the likeness" wasn't there in the same way, but the rendering was really hard - I just never seem to get dark enough in the shadows. When I was doing this along with the Figure Drawing Course, I used to start with the darkest values and work from there - but I kept getting the terminator in the wrong place and then found it hard to make it lighter - so now I try to work from the middle value and go both ways from there, to the darks and then to the lights, and I never seem to get dark enough even if I do go back to these areas many times.... The other thing I was just making up as I went along was the background - I've yet to find any direct advice on how to deal with this, and this was my first try at doing anything other than just leaving it white... anyway, I'd be interested to know what you think of my attempt at Yoni
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Liandro
Hey, @Jo Sheridan! It's really a challenge fitting in time to draw some cartoons along with so much other stuff there is to be done! :D Nice work with this drawing, I can imagine how it must have felt very different from your previous portrait works. I think you did a good job getting the shapes in place. I feel like it lost a bit of gesture on the bending of the torso and the neck. It also seems to me the hands and feet might have gotten a tiny bit too small, especially the hand in the front. I really like how you designed the arms’ anatomy, and I’m wondering if you were mostly copying from the reference or did you apply any supplemental anatomy knowledge of your own. For composition sake, I think one simple adjustment that could bring a lot of difference is making the chair (bench?) ands its drapery a little darker - make it a closer value to the background (rather than having it close to the model value-wise as it is now). For the background, right now, I’d suggest focus on trying to make it a little bit more uniform, so its fill and “texture” won’t draw too much attention to distract from the figure. I’m not good enough at charcoal to give you advice on how to use it to get darker values, but one exercise that could really help you better control your pencil pressure for value is to practice doing value scales. Hope this helps!
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Jo Sheridan
Asked for help
Hi Liandro, I would be keen to know what you think of the self portrait that I did for the August #Prokochallenge. While I think I got the likeness pretty well, I do think that the overall 'feeling' of my pastel/charcoal drawing is a bit odd - I wanted to work on dark paper because my hair is so white and couldn't imagine getting it right on white paper. So I have a set of coloured pastels that I planned to use, but then I realised that getting the skin tones right was going to be almost impossible as I have only really done pencil sketching so far - so I ended up using white and sepia and black charcoal in the same way that I would use different graphite tones and didn't really like what I ended up with. Any ideas on different ways to approach this would be welcome. Thanks, Jo.
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Liandro
Hey, @Jo Sheridan, this is a great drawing! I like your choice to work on dark paper and I think you handled the hair texture pretty well. I think what mainly calls my attention is that the contrast is a bit too low in areas that should feel deeper, such as the eye sockets and the occlusion areas near the neck, the jaw and the forehead (pointed out in blue). Also, there’s something about the head construction that makes it feel less of a rounded form than what it should be - when I compare the drawing to the photo, I see the angle of the mouth matches quite closely, but the angle of the eyes doesn’t as much, and I think this is what's making the head feel kind of warped overall. I don’t know how was your process, but I suppose thinking of 3D forms (for example, as in a Loomis head) and using cross-contours to establish the height of the facial features might help with getting a stronger sense of volume and perspective. One final thing I’m noticing now is that the foreshortening effect on the arm is less strong in your drawing than it was on the photo. Nevertheless, this must have been a real challenge indeed, it’s a hard perspective with a hard expression to portray. I especially like the forms on the hand and the subtleties on the facial features. I think this is good work! Let me know in case you have other thoughts.
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Jo Sheridan
Asked for help
Hi Liandro, I've been tucked away in my shed for a while working on this drawing of my daughter. I have learnt a lot. Particularly, I now understand what people mean when they say don't be overambitious, as this photo I chose to try to draw was really difficult, mainly I think because there are no shadows on the face, and the half tones are really subtle. The other thing I now realise is hard, is drawing a face straight on like this, as you have so few easy-to-check landmarks and I found that the framework I had for the facial features was really easy to flex in all directions, which sent me down some interesting paths at times. I found the mouth really difficult - I think I re-positioned it about 10 times (and I can see it is still not quite right), and the paper did get messed up with all my erasing, so the shading is rougher than I would like around this bit and the chin. Anyway, I would be interested to hear your thoughts. Jo.
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Liandro
Wow, @Jo Sheridan, I think this looks pretty good! It definitely feels like you’ve done some thorough, careful work. The likeness is definitely there. I love how you treated the loose strands of hair on the upper part of the head (actually, the overall hair and brow textures look nicely done). I understand your struggle about the subtle tone variations, the light is really very soft on the reference. One thing that calls my attention is that the eyes got a little asymmetrical (the eye to the left got a bit too small in the drawing somehow; or maybe it’s the one the right that got a bit too big?). Maybe it’s just a matter of double-checking proportions side to side during the construction stage. Regardless, I really like the fine detailing on the area of the eyes. And one thing I’d suggest for a future drawing is maybe work out the structure of the neck a bit more, too, in the linear sketch stage - this should probably make the neck feel more solidly constructed when shaded. Hope this helps! Keep up the good work.
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Jo Sheridan
Asked for help
Hi Liandro - I've just decided to stop fiddling with this portrait of my husband because I think you can probably go on forever tweaking and making adjustments to these things - comments welcome - Jo
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Stephen Bauman
HI Jo, nice portrait. In terms of advice I would recommend you to consider the way you are grouping your values in relation to the light source. Avoid too dark of values on the light facing side of the head.
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Liandro
Hey, @Jo Sheridan, I think this is an awesome drawing! What mainly calls my attention as something to be adjusted is the overall shape of the head - it seems to have gotten a bit too short around the chin area, and maybe the mouth could be a tiny bit less angled. The overall lighting looks good, and you’ve been shrewdly attentive to many details, which enriched the rendering quite a lot. Congratulations on your nice work! You’re right, sometimes we only see stuff after we post the drawing somewhere and we could definitely go on forever making adjustments. :) No worries - try to let go of perfectionism, focus on the process and keep up the journey!
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Jo Sheridan
Looking at this now I can see his face is the wrong shape under his left eye - grr - how is it we only see these things too late!
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TeResA Bolen
Thank you @Liandro Roger ! This is super cool of you, especially since you are such a gifted teacher. We are lucky beta testers indeed!
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Liandro
That's very kind of you to say, @Teresa Bolen! :)
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