Martin M
Martin M
Estonia
Used to draw in high school. Picking it up again now at the age of 35. Started taking courses online September 2023. Super excited!
Martin M
Level 1
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Martin M
Level 2 - rotated hand nr 2. I think I will try more with different view angles. This "along the palm" angle is great for figuring out how steep of an angle each finger joint box should be. BUT this angle sort of removes all the side planes. So this is a great view angle to study foreshortening by making a lot of the boxes use 2 point perspective (almost). Having less vanishing points makes you focus more on the few lines that are converging. So if each joint of one finger is rotated more than the previous joint then the angle of the converging lines will keep on getting steeper (or more parallel).
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Martin M
It's going to be tricky to meet the deadline of 1/15/2024 (which is the date the video was posted on) @Stan Prokopenko
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@mariabygrove
Ok, so I spent waaaaay too much time on this, went down a countless rabbit holes but and in the end it turned out to be pretty simple. So there, a cube rotating in place in two point perspective :)
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Martin M
Brilliant! This is a mind blown moment for me.
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Scott Diesing
Level 1 and Level 2 combined.
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Martin M
I love these!
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Florian Haeckh
3 digital, 3 traditional. This was very hard. I did one more which I then overlayed over the photo, but kept it out of the set, because I wanted to get feedback from the community and not myself. So I have both.
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Martin M
Good idea to overlay with photo later! Will try it out as well. Your boxes look correct to me. I am jealous of how you managed to capture the likeness of the models with so few lines. The only "mistake" that I can see is with #3. Largest plane of the box (which is representing the back of the head) in your drawing has its left edge along the ear. But I think that should be roughly middle of the side plane of the head. The back plane of the box should thus be a lot smaller.
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Martin M
This exercise seems really good for challenging your brain to wrap something into a box and establish its vanishing points. I have spent time learning Asaro head and Loomis method so I thought that this exercise will be easy. Just take what I know and put a box around it and done. But it is surprisingly hard. I keep on redrawing the box after drawing the head to fix it. This means that my initial guess for the box and its vanishing points was incorrect. So this is a GOOD exercise as I found something that requires more practise. I considered that I had mastered the box and vanishing points, but I clearly can't wrap objects I see into a box correctly from my imagination. Easy to do it digitally, but not in my head.
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Martin M
The more I do these the more I seem to be slowing down(starting to measure a lot) in the box drawing phase. I can feel when the box has incorrect angle or proportions, but only after I put down the lines. So I need to draw a lot more of these boxes to develop the sense for it. As for the heads, I seem to struggle with the eye sockets. They need to be a "cavity" but some parts of them feel flat. Especially the edge between eye sockets and the cheekbones area. Not really part of this exercise, but something for me to dive into later.
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@mariabygrove
I've beed drawing the warmup boxes and my goal was to try and make them look like cubes (all sides square) rather than any random box. And I've been failing miserably! So I thought I'd try to draw one cube in procreate and rotate it, to see in the animation what I'm doing wrong. And I still can't figure it out :( I'm rotating the cube around one constant edge and this edge's height doesn't change. So why does it look like the cube is getting shorter when rotating away from the 1 point perspective? What do I need to do to get the illusion that it's one constant cube turning, rather than turning and getting squished? Seems like it should be obvious but... Can anyone help?
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Martin M
Very cool side project! Your cube is rotating correctly around it's front left edge. So as the box rotates around that edge it will go behind it and get "squished" because its going farther away from us. What you have drawn is correct, but from your description I gather that you would like the cube to rotate around it's central axis (which is imaginary as no line on the drawing currently represents such central axis through the cube). That is more difficult to draw and even trickier to animate. Instead of starting your cube drawing from one of the edges and then extending other edges towards the vanishing points, you will now have to put down an imaginary vertical line (or some construction line to erase later) and start to draw the box around it. To be honest, I don't really know how to do construct boxes around central axis reliably. I have attached some steps for how I would try to do it, but it still involves guess work. So the size of the box will not remain constant throughout the rotation due to guessing errors. (not sure if images will attach in the correct order, but they have numbers on them)
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@silman
Can someone help me here with what to do when the box is not between the two vanishing points? Where do the lines on the other side vanish towards?
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Martin M
This is only hinted at in the current videos, but likely will get covered in future videos. I will try to give an explanation anyway. Short answer is that you can't place an object outside it's vanishing points. The box shape gets so deformed that it breaks the 3D effect of your drawing. So for current exercises consider the vanishing points to be the edges that you can still draw objects on, but don't go past them. A bit of a longer hint for what's likely to come: Stan already showed an example of stacked books. These books got their own set of vanishing points because they were rotated compared to each other. Once we learn more about different objects having their own sets of vanishing points THEN you will be able to place an object outside of some vanishing points and "generate" new vanishing points for that specific object. What I mean by this is that currently we use two vanishing points for the entire drawing BUT in the future you will use vanishing points per object. Some objects will share vanishing points if they are aligned like a set of houses on a street. Some objects will have their own set of vanishing points because they are rotated compared to the houses like a car parked diagonally in front of the house. By that time you will likely think about your vanishing point placement for the entire scene AND decide if the next object you are about to draw will need its own set of vanishing points. This may sound like a lot of work to do for every object, but as Stan said: you will develop a feel for it and you can totally eyeball it OR you can go super mathematical if you want maximum precision for your technical illustration (likely would need perspective specific course for it)
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Martin M
Inked over my pencil drawing to force myself to practice straight lines by ghosting it first. But I still fell back to scratching the lines in as a few long lines did not land perfectly. And as soon as you scratch one line thicker then you will have to adjust the weight of all other lines. Takeaway for the next time: if I don't land a perfect line then leave it as is. Just move on. Maybe I should have stuck to the box shape for the room walls. It feels like there is too much going on.
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@sniggy
I found it very difficult to get clean and correct lines without using a ruler. Especially for the objects I placed far away from the VP. Yet, I think I get the idea.
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Martin M
I have highlighted a few lines that seem to not converge at some other vanishing point. But I believe you do get the idea of it as these few are most likely accidents from trying to guess the angle of the line based on the other lines near it.
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Martin M
Asked for help
Some before demo, others after demo. I felt like I learned the most by starting the demo, looking at the ref that Stan was about to draw and then pausing the video. After I finish my drawing, I would immediately watch Stans video. This way I was super focused on analyzing every line that he put down. Downside of this is that it slows down the flow. My line work did not feel as good as with the timer approach. Timer approach got me into a flow. I drew many more poses. They don't look as good and I don't think I learned as much from a single pose. But I just did so many more in 1h that overall I felt improvement. Also I felt my hand getting cramped. Ouch :D
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@bonnieblue
Morning y'all. HELP PLEASE!! SO... 1 point Perspective w/ VP at right. This one is harder I think, it took me a while, & i'm still not sure if it's right. What do yall think? Looking at it here, the refrigerator is slanted. Should've looked at the pict sooner to double check. Oh well
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Martin M
Good job! It gets tricky to draw all the planes of the objects if they are close to the horizon line and the drawing is small. Some of the planes that should be visible from this angle, but are really hard to fit into the drawing: 1) The cupboard on the left should also show its top plane as it is lower than the horizon line. Meaning that if you look at a cupboard that is lower than your eye level in a room then you will see its top side. 2) The table that has the microwave on top should also show it's top side because it is lower than the horizon line I see other people saying that this is a 2 point perspective. I am not sure if I fully agree with that statement. For a drawing to be considered a 2 point perspective there should be more lines converging to a second vanishing point, but I don't see enough lines converging anywhere to establish a second VP. A few big lines at the top and bottom of the room are not 100% horizontal so initial thought might be that this is a 2 point perspective, but checking the lines doesn't really give us the second point. Overall it doesn't matter if we define it as 1 or 2 point perspective. What matters is that our eyes are very sensitive to the angles of the lines and these perspective lessons challenge us to draw perfect lines at perfect angles. I think you have the understanding of how to draw a room in 1 point perspective and the only thing that can be improved is drawing the horizontal lines and vertical lines more accurately. Which I think requires using rulers with 90 angles and what not. We are really dealing with tiny details about accuracy which is hard to achieve on a drawing of that size. To make it easier you can just draw the room bigger. That leaves more room to draw the missing planes.
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Martin M
After demo and critique videos: I feel like the videos really helped. Not sure if it is noticable, but I feel a lot more confident about capturing the gesture! It really helps to attempt this first and find out the challenges before watching the demos. So many "ah-a " moments and realizations as I compared Stans drawing process to my own. I was eager to try again and now I am just stunned. Immediate improvement just two drawings in. I will keep drawing these seals as one of my warm-up exercises. I just feel so much improvement going from one drawing to the next. A lot of practice needed, but I can feel it working!
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Martin M
Question: I seem to prefer to make my lines thicker if I am struggling. I guess it adds more ways to play with line weight. But I am not sure if it's a sign that I lack confidence during this exercise. Should I aim to get confident lines for these kind of exercises or is it ok to keep on drawing over and over to "mold" the shape? Attached: 3 pictures of level 1 and then one picture of level 2. I feel like I started to understand shapes better by the end of it, but the proportions seem to suffer as soon as I feel like I get into the zone.
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Martin M
Self feedback after watching the demo: I really need to loosen up the sketching phase for this exercise and not aim to place perfect lines at the beginning. Also I need to try out apex points. I have quite a few snowmen here.
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@bonnieblue
Hi y'all, HELP PLEASE! I'm stumped. I like everything, except the right side seats. How do I make them 3D from this angle? Right now they're just flat
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Martin M
I have added an image with some feedback. The red lines indicate missing lines. Some of the chairs lack their shape because of those missing lines. The blue line indicates that 3 of the chairs are all connected on the seat level. More of a lounge areas I guess :) It might be tricky to separate them as the drawing gets tight but adding those details would really capture the 3D effect of the space. Just needs a lot of patience to draw all of those separations between the chairs. And overall the guiding lines that converge on the vanishing point are capturing a lot the viewers attention. You should clean them up a bit OR draw the outlines of the objects with lines that have more weight. I attached an image where I tried to clean up some of the guiding lines to put more focus on the outlines of the chairs. It looks like you understand how 1 point perspective works! For these drawings to feel more 3D you just need patience to make sure that there are no lines missing and extra effort to make the important lines pop and to draw the guiding lines lighter.
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@bonnieblue
HELP PLEASE. So 1 point perspective, just so I understand from outside the box to inside the box. Take the left box on the horizon line, which side wall do you keep? The one you see or the invisible one? A or B. Do you keep the ceiling too for this horizon line vanishing point? Thank yall for your responses
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Martin M
I have attached an image with black lines representing the visible sides of the box and red lines showing the hidden sides of the box. it might help you to draw a few of these boxes with this kind of an x-ray vision with all sides drawn. You can then play with line weight and make the visible sides thicker.
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Martin M
I deviated from the assignment a bit with this charcoal drawing on toned paper. It started out with assignment in mind a but I did want to finish with a rendered result. Disclaimer: I measured digitally first (picture attached). And I took a photo of my progress after each step to compare it to the reference digitally and find mistakes that I could not see by measuring on paper. On paper I measured everything with pencil. I think I trust the process now! I just need to practice now to get my manual measurements more accurate. Overall in the envelope step I made the hair too tall and the neck too narrow. In the major shapes step getting the glasses right was tricky as they are at an angle. In the detail step I needed to shift the eyes just a tiny bit. In rendering I feel least confident about the hair (not sure how to render it with charcoal) and the nose (It seems to point at the viewer while the face should not be directly looking at the viewer)
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Martin M
Even after watching someone go through it and highlight the challenging parts (such as the tilt of the face) there still seem to be several mistakes. I added an image of overlaying my drawing with the reference. I still messed up the tilt and some of the spacing. I deliberately tried to draw the nose higher than felt right but actually it should have gone even higher! :D Need to find a way to turn off this brain auto-correct while measuring!
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Martin M
I feel like I struggle trying to break free from drawing shapes that represent 3D "components" of the animal. I wish I could draw shapes that would just represent the animal. Looking forward to watching the demo videos to see how these specific animals were approached for shape drawing. I thought this would be easy but I see that I need a lot of practice in it. I struggled with the idea so much that my line quality dropped. My mind kept on trying to think and analyse and I did not take a break, instead I kept my hand going and it kept on drawing messy lines. Which is just a sign of me not being sure of what kind of a line I want on the paper and that is a sign of me not knowing how to represent these animals as simple shapes.
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Martin M
Did a study of Christian Erbe @shlerbe After taking a picture and comparing it on my computer to the original I can see that I could go even thicker with the lines at some spots. Improvement opportunities become so much clearer once I get to compare the drawing to the original on a similar medium (computer screen) Want to do more studies now! Feedback is most welcome!
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