Jesse Yao
Jesse Yao
San Jose, CA
Aspirant manga artist. Started 11/29/20
Tony Vu
Still practicing the robobean daily. My brain seems to have a hard time ascertaining which planes are actually facing me. Exaggerating is also something is struggle with. Any feedback is welcomed!
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Jesse Yao
The orientations look good! I don't think you should be worrying about the planes. The thing you should be worry about though is the gesture. These are too structural. I feel like you went about the robo bean by just drawing a box, another box, and connecting them. And if you aren't, it feels that way, which is not the end goal. I struggled a bit with this problem too, and its an interesting issue. It's a very important thing to realize why you're doing all these exercises in the first place and not get lost in just doing the exercises hoping itll somehow magically apply itself and help you draw a figure. Because it won't. In fact, artists have many a times done some arbitrary drill that was set before them, gotten real good at it, and then went to do what they wanted to do and (woops) that drill doesnt help them at all. And then have a crisis. The robobean in itself is a tool - it is not meant to be a finished drawing. The purpose of the robo bean is to help to draw a figure. And what's the most important thing to drawing a figure? The *gesture.* The gesture is the MOST important. It makes figures come to life and feel lively. The robobean is a tool to ascertain orientation of the torso, and while the torso can be broken down into those three parts, its still one part of the body. And if its a part of the body, it must follow the gesture. The robo bean is supposed to be adding structure ON TOP of gesture, not the other way around. If you've seen Stan draw the robobean, you probably notice he starts off drawing the contour or "major gestures of the bean." He then goes in and finds the edges of the of the boxes that represent the torso inside those established gestures. This is what the robobean is meant to be, a tool to define structure within a gestural form, not purely structure. If the goal of a figure drawing is to draw lively and compelling figures, and if the torso is one of the most important parts of a figure, then it necessarily means that the robobean MUST be gestural. After all, if it isn't gestural and purely structural, the entire figure drawing gets killed. I'll reiterate this point because it's a direly important point that artists (including myself a lot of the time) have forgotten - remember WHY you're doing this in the first place. Not only does this apply to drills, but it even applies to mediums as well (I digress, anyways;) If your goal is to draw environments, you should probably start investing your time elsewhere. If your goal is to draw robo beans only, then you're 99% the way there. If your goal is to draw figures and invent figures, then you need to remember what this tool serves in the grand scheme of things. And that it is just that - a tool to use to help you draw figures. Lively figures. *Gestural figures.* Structure FOLLOWS gesture. In fact, the reason Stan wants us to exaggerate is because when structure is laid on top of gesture, it chips away at the gesture. We must have enough gesture "to spare" to still make the drawing look lively. That is the whole point behind why exaggerating is emphasized (besides it just being a good exercise for the mind). That aside, very solid work. Keep it up
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Jesse Yao
Asked for help
I might as well just be posting every few weeks now seeing how I somehow just don't post every week. On the main post will be my latest assignments, and reply threads to it will just be studies or gesture exercises and stuff like that. I started mannequinization and it (like the landmarks before it) was really scary until I actually started doing it, where it then actually seemed really simple. Here they are (Robo beans, gestures, muscle studies will be on reply threads) Any feedback appreciated! @Liandro @Jesper Axelsson @Diego Lucia
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Jesse Yao
Muscle studies: My friend (and mentor) from art center wanted me to do some muscle studies of backs, torsos, arms (and legs which I didn't get to woops), so here they are. The more complex ones weren't timed, but the two images that have two identical drawings on them were timed 1m, 5m (they're labeled as such)
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Jesse Yao
Gestures (fountain pen): drawing the gestures in fountain was really refreshing and more fun as since I want to become a digital/manga artist, charcoal isn't as nearly an applicable medium as pen. Here are some of my latest (1 min and 2 min)
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Jesse Yao
Gestures (charcoal); mainly used for warmups
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Ricky Purnell
Hello. Testing the new site which has pushed me to be a bit more proactive with my drawing. This is my attempt at mannequin assignment 2. Right now I hate my art style, I hate my lines and I hate my work. But I know its rust and a forever work in progress. Really getting stuck with the mannequin. I have been 2 strict with the shapes and am trying to loosen up and think more of what feels right.. I know I have been lazy in some areas like the hands and feet but feel I’ve got bigger issues right now. I’d appreciate a little push and feedback here if anyone can help. What should I focus on?
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Jesse Yao
I think you may have taken the "mannequization" word a bit too seriously LOL because this is very mannequin-esque. In that regard though, the structure is very nicely provided, and I can feel the twist very nicely! Now prepare for a ton of feedback :) Contour lines; there's way too many of them. For each section on the limbs (upper arm, lower arm, upper leg, lower leg), really only one contour line is needed unless there's some crazy twisting, foreshortening, or one of the sections' bones is broken the limbs bending in 3 places or something crazy like that. One effective contour line will provide all the information the viewer needs to infer the orientation. In addition, your contour lines seem a bit flat. Notice how (for example) the models lower right leg's contour lines flatten out at the top, making it seem like her leg is almost completely flat on top. We obviously don't want that because that's not how it is. Contour lines' effectiveness come from their EDGES (where they turn off into space), NOT their centers. In order to get effective contour lines, practice ghosting and feeling the form before putting down the mark. I would say more, but drawabox.com (a free online drawing resource) says this a lot better than I do and is also where I initially learned these concepts from. In addition, contour lines DONT EXIST in real life. This means that if you draw contour lines as hard as you draw the lines that actually define the form, sometimes it'll be read as being ON the form in real life. Therefore, remember to lighten up the contour lines as contour lines are, in essence and function, meant to be there to solely suggest the orientation of the form. ***Remember Gesture***!!! Gesture is the most important part of the drawing and it seems to me here that you've build each section of the body up piece by piece, which resulted in a very mannequin-esque pose. The general flow of doing figure drawings goes something like this: Gesture, form, contour, anatomy, rendering (with each individual step becoming more merged together the more experience you get). So remember to do the gesture first, applying knowledge of the robo bean to get that torso right, then build from there. Robobean: The torso box is out of proption; be sure to review the robobean lesson and the landmarks lesson to know where the corners of the box are. Front corners on PSIS, back corners on ASIS. If you're confused by anything I just said, go back and review! Her head position is also sligggghtly off - in the post the center line of her head is not visible since she's facing away from us. The curve you drew should be a bit straighter. Of course, if you're confused by anything I said, the best thing to do is just to watch Stan do it! Watch the demo and follow along, identifying what each line represents. It helps a ton! TLDR; Remember gesture, contour lines are important to get right but there doesn't need to be so many of them, and some things are a bit off proportionally and positionally. And watch Stan's demos! Keep up the good work! - Also don't worry about the hands and feet, it's alright to just draw rough shapes for them :) Those things are pretty complicated just by themselves, so no need to stress over them now!
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Avinash
Hi fellow artists, would appreciate a feedback on my attempt at this assignment.
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Jesse Yao
Looks good! The one issue I see is the contour lines. There's too many of them. In most cases for the cylinders of the arms and the legs one *effective contour line* is enough for each section. Adding any more contour lines make it distracting. Remember that contour lines DONT EXIST in real life! Meaning that they should be very faint and few to establish maximum accuracy. If you make the contour lines have the same impact as the the actual lines that describe the figure, it'll look very manniquine-y (which is fine if you want to just draw mannequins, but I assume you're not). In addition your contour lines seem (especially on the legs) kinda just thrown on there as a last thought after finishing everything else. These last thought contour lines you put on actually *break* the form and make it less believable, since the contour lines don't match with what the form is doing. Ghost the contour lines and feel the form and after sufficient ghosting put down your mark. In the beginning you may miss a bit, but after sufficient practice is should become of relative ease. Remember that the effect of contour lines come from the contour line's EDGES (where the line curves off into space), NOT the center. For more practice on contour lines and such, drawabox.com is a helpful free online resource where you can go practice those skills. In short, one, effective contour line will be leagues more useful (and aesthetically more pleasing) than a bunch of last-minute-thought contour lines, which at best will just be distracting, but at worst can break the form completely. Other than the contour lines, the oval that represents the cranial flat side seems a bit out of proportion. Gestures feel good and you got that twist really well! Keep it up!
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Tobias Degnebolig
is this just alot of knowledge in perscpective and structure u are using? (thinking of what kind of fundamenals?)
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Jesse Yao
Drawabox.com is a great (free!) resource for getting foundations in constructional drawing (which happens to be all about perspective and structure)
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Jahsee Mullings
So far I have been practicing gesture more and is happy with my results so far. I am very happy I am getting better, finally. What do you all think about my results. I tried my best to do #5 although it did not come out that great. Do you know how I can continue to improve.
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Jesse Yao
Good work! As Matheus said, it seems you're focusing too much on contour and not enough on the flow. Additionally, it seems to me you're also focusing a lot on making the lines look accurate to the pose (looking at the drawings), and this is causing you to tense up. Remember to loosen up and draw bigger! Gesture drawings should capture the feel and flow of a pose (not the contour!), and many times won't look exactly like the pose at all; drawing bigger will help you loosen up and start drawing from the shoulder. Keep it up!
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Florian Haeckh
I had trouble sticking to 45 seconds with some of these. Would love to hear your opinions :)
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Jesse Yao
These look really good to me LOL. But remember that the purpose of gesture drawings is not to be a finished drawing; in the process of drawing a figure from start to finish, gesture is usually done early, and everything is laid out on top of it, so don't fret about making it look exactly like the pose (because it shouldn't). Saying that though these (again) look awesome! For some of the poses though (like bottom, 2nd from left) the torso doesn't feel quite voluminous and feels more like a sheet (I have that issue too lol). If you haven't looked at the bean or robo bean, I'd recommend taking a look, since Stan covers torso voluminity in those videos. And also be sure to to check out other artists methods of drawing gesture, like mike mattesi and glen vilpuu, and try doing it their way. You might find yourself in an "ohhhhh!" moment when you're darwing along with them (I know I did) Keep up the good work!
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Jesse Yao
Nice work! Looking at your beans though, I get the feeling that you drew along the contours of the bean, which misses a very important process of the drawing: draw through! Drawing through is important as it takes the multitude of things that you need to juggle when drawing the bean and simplifies it down into manageable steps. Drawing two ovals to represent the masses of the torso and the pelvis, connecting them with lines, adding orientation features (folds, twists, etc) and then adding the center line is a much easier process than trying to draw the bean straight from contour, as trying to draw it as is without any drawthrough means you're trying to handle perspective, proportion, orientation, and gesture at the same time, which is a crazy amount to handle, especially for artists who are just new to the bean. Try as Stan does in the videos and follow along, he usually does the drawthrough process as I have described. Sometimes he'll start with the longest lasting arc - that technique is usually seldom used in this stage of the figure drawing course and should probably be avoided until you have a good grip on the bean's proportions, as starting with the longest lasting arc is essentially starting with contour, and we've already covered why that's not the greatest idea in the beginning. Keep it up!
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ciel
Here’s my first few attempts with the bean. Did the first two pages yesterday, the other two today. Hope it’s not an issue that I posted these before my gestures. I just signed up here today even though I’ve done a few gestures before and just wanted to try out something new first.
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Jesse Yao
Good work! I definitely see some good beans in terms of how then bend forward and back. Though one big thing: Drawthrough!! Looking at your beans I get the feeling that you drew along the contours of the bean, trying to get proportion and orientation in space while you were doing it. This is inherently a lot of things to juggle (especially if it's your first time) and can easily be overwhelming. Try like Stan did in the video and drawing two ovular masses to indicate rough size and position of the masses of the ribs and torso, then connecting them with lines and adding orientation (twists, leans, etc). Then draw the line of action last to finish it off. Drawing through is important because it takes those tons of things you need to juggle and simplifies them into steps; the establishing ovals give you position, size, proportion, and general establishment. Then drawing connecting lines between the ovals gives you more refinement of form, adding orientation details further defines that. Then the line of action is added on top to even further define orientation, though if you're doing it right, the line of action often won't even be needed. I see you've also draw contour lines on two of your beans - this generally isn't necessary. The process of drawing the bean itself, and more importantly correct orientation details, will give the contour naturally. It's also great to want to try something new! I feel the same way, doing the same gestures for months burned me out. But because Stan's courses are meant to build gradually on top of previous modules, it's important to follow the way he's set up his courses. 2 weeks on each module max, whether you feel comfortable with it or not, then move on. And keep it up!
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Kaelin Harris
I feel a little lost on bean practice. This is the last one I did for the week, but (ignoring my really scratchy lines) I don't feel like I capture foreshortening or twist really well.
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Jesse Yao
These look good! One big thing though; it seems to me (looking at your drawings) that you draw through a lot, instead drawing more along the contour of the bean. Trying drawing through the masses, with the ribs and torsos being ovals and then connecting them like Stan does in the videos. Sometimes he'll start with the longest lasting arc, but for now I'd say try to limit doing that. Once you get a fairly good handle on proportions (which just comes from doing overkill amount of beans) you can try doing longest lasting arcs and omitting drawthroughs. Drawthroughs are important because they help your brain understand where the forms are in 3d space, and especially help with foreshortening and twists. It also helps to establish better proportions. Try doing like Stan and drawing the two ovals for the masses of the bean, connecting them with lines, adding folds and twists where necessary, and THEN drawing the line of action to finish it off.
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abrahan13
Asked for help
any feedback is appreciated
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Jesse Yao
As others have said, it's a bit hard to read. If you're using something like a derwent or mars technico, go for the darkest lead you have (e.g. 9b), or some charcoal. If you're using newsprint, you should probably be using charcoal anyways (quotes from my artcenter friend). Keep up the good work :)
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kaitei
Asked for help
Hello, I'm currently studying the Figure Drawing Fundamentals course. I'm aiming to do gesture exercises as a warm up before study sessions. I still find gesture quite difficult to grasp. I often run out of time or I get too hasty and feel like I could have used my time more carefully. Proportion feels very challenging. I'm not sure how I could become better at it. It feels quite difficult to focus in general, there are so many concepts to keep in mind. I'm posting some 2 minute poses from today as my first test post. I'm very excited about Proko 2.0! I hope to learn to use this website quickly. I'm very grateful for any critique.
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Jesse Yao
I'm not sure if it was in the gesture critique video in the lesson or in a draftsmen podcast, but Marshall has said (and Stan has agreed) that proportions are not to be worried about if you're just starting out. Which sounds pretty ridiculous (when I first did those gesture lessons I could not get my head around it either), but you'll find out that after some practice you'll get better at it, and then it'll just come to you after doing "an overkill amount of gesture exercises" (Marshall). Worrying about too much (like measuring out proportions, form, and etc) will overload your brain. Go one at a time. These gesture drawings AREN'T supposed to be finished drawings anyways, later on they'll just be rough quick light layins before the real meat of drawing and rendering kicks in. If this is your first day doing gestures, then just keep practicing them. Learn from other people as well as Stan (like Glenn Vilpu or Mike Mattesi), watch some demos, and keep going. It'll slowly start to get better. As an addition, Stan has said himself to not spend more than 2 weeks on any module of his courses, and to move on whether you're comfortable with it or not. This is to facilitate progress and avoid getting tunnel visioned on perfecting one module before moving on.
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Adam Shaban
Hello! I just wanted to ask as a beginner artist if I should start with the anatomy course or with the figure drawing course
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Jesse Yao
I'd like to add that Stan has recommended 2 weeks maximum on each module in one of his courses, regardless of if you feel comfortable with the material in that module or not (cited from the Draftsmen podcast). This is to prevent getting stuck in one module for months trying to perfect it, which is counterproductive. And as Lincoln said, Figure drawing first, then anatomy. It's actually better to probably do both at the same time, with some proportion like 90% figure drawing 10% anatomy, but focus primarily on figure drawing
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Bruised Banana
Is gesture easier in digital, with a smooth screen or on traditional paper, with a sketch book? Thanks in advance
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Jesse Yao
Many professional artists advise to start on traditional and then switch to digital later, citing that starting on digital could lead to issues later on down the road. Personally I'm not to the point where I can confirm that, but I thought I could just relay that piece of advice to you. Though of course that doesn't mean you can't do digital while doing traditional either
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Josh mcgrath
I would some help on the mannequin I usually just draw them using boxes and cylinder but can't grasp my head around seeing the shapes you do should I stick to my own way or draw mannequins you're way and if so how?
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Jesse Yao
If the problem is that you can't see or draw boxes/cylinders in perspective, then it's probably best to back up. The mannequization lesson is meant to be after you have a reasonable and comfortable command of drawing cylinders and boxes more or less. If that's not the problem then what Filip said is what I'd say too. Just keep practicing them the way Stan has you do them since he has the experience doing it, and eventually you'll develop your own systems
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Jesse Yao
Asked for help
5/16: 4 weeks later, I've switched to actual charcoal, finals are over, and I've rewarded myself with the pleasure of guilt-free doing nothingness for a few days which makes me wonder how people do nothing all day because I feel horrible not doing anything LOL (so not quite guilt free i guess). I didn't realize it's been that long. Since then I've moved on to the robo bean and gotten frustrated at my suckiness. All the work from the past 4 weeks is right here (in the reply thread), sectioned out. Feedback appreciated! @Liandro @Diego Lucia @Jesper Axelsson And updates on personal life, I've signed up for Marshall's perspective bootcamp and Kirk's analytical figure drawing class! Also planning to take perspective at CDA as well, so I can get my fundies up to scratch. My mom said she'd support my art classes as long as I keep up with school (AWESOME!). Really excited to see the launch of Proko 2.0! I'll try to post more often, the announcement of Proko 2.0's launch date made me realize I didn't post in forever (and should probably post before it launched for one more round of feedback before I'd likely have to pay for the feedback hehehehheh). Thanks @Stan Prokopenko @Mike Jara and the Proko team for the incredible work they do for the art community and acting as a gateway for aspiring (or curious) artists everywhere! Y'all changed my life :) ..hopefully I'll post more often than every 3-4 weeks from now on LOL
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Jesse Yao
30 second poses: My go to warmup for drawing on newsprint, so there's like a million pages of these now. I watched Glenn Vilpuu draw some figures on youtube and his method really intrigued me and I tried it out. It feels much different than Stan's (or Mike's method) and kinda feels a little better (please don't ban me stan (: ). Since my computer decided to not order these at all these will not be ordered, though do note that the charcoal drawings are the later ones.
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Jesse Yao
5 minute drawing: Shading with charcoal was too fun so I decided to do some 5 minute drawings and try some shading. When I was in elementary school my parents did force me to take art classes and I basically sketched drew and shaded still lifes with derwent pencils for a few hours a week, so I'd like to think those experiences helped me get some early shading experience... though it definitely still looks like a grey mushy mess.
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Jesse Yao
1 - 2min drawings: Still harder than quick 30 second gestures (for me at least). Though using charcoal does give me a little bit more to do as I can screw acround with shading, which is fun :D
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Jesse Yao
1. Knowing what to study, when, and for how long; Generally since I just started I am still focusing on the fundamentals (especially figure drawing), but this is something that you'd have to find out through research. For example, since I want to be a manga artist, I'd need to know: The art fundamentals (figure drawing, composition, perspective, color and lighting, etc.) Beyond the fundamentals (character design, environment, etc.) The history of the craft Storytelling The native language These are things that you'd need to research. The sooner you get a grip on what exactly you want to do with this, the more clear your goals can be. Though saying this, in addition to the things you have decided you must know, be sure to throw some experimental classes in there to add a nice pazazz to your own personal art. This tip was one of many that Peter Han gave me in the Dyn Sketching class, and helps especially to make you stand out and not just be "another artist." For how long, it's mostly rough blockouts of time mentally and then instinctually moving on when I feel it is enough (or investigating further when I feel the necessity). Not a very helpful answer in that front I know. As for when, Stan and Marshall have talked about on the Draftsmen podcast to realize when your creative hours are, and safeguard it at all costs. This is a good idea, but once you've practiced anything enough, practice goes from something you force yourself to do to something you just do. When it feels weird or even hurts to not practice is when you know you've gotten there, though that kind of feeling takes a very long time to cultivate. As a side note, my personal creative hours happen to be late at night, which also happens to be when I want to sleep, and many times I've chosen to sleep because I'm just tired. This kind of justified procrastination is extremely dangerous, and I've started using the chain method to try to get over it, and it might be helpful for you. The method's idea is simple: Keep a physical or mental calendar. Now practice one day. Now practice the day after. Here now you have a "chain" of practice days. Your goal is now simple: Do not break the chain. How to keep the difficulty level appropriate: Again if you're starting with the fundamentals like me you're gonna be pretty bad at everything, so there's no wrong turn. Just don't go into trying to draw an entire animated movie by yourself and you should be fine. I try to learn at least one new thing a day to make me feel that I'm always improving, but that usually comes after my finished exercises, though this can vary. Personally it helps for me as doing the same routine too long makes me bored of doing it. You cannot know what is too hard for you until you actually try to attempt it, so go try it. If it's too easy that it's boring it is time to either move on or relegate that to a brief warmup before your actual practice session. Slaving away is seemingly a bigger morale killer than actually attempting something that you can't actually do, so if anything keep pushing yourself. Stan doesn't tell people to make sure they master each module in his courses before moving onto the next; it's 2 weeks max. Whether or not you're comfortable with it or not. We move on to further concepts because many times you will be practicing the more fundamental and basic skills when you're practicing more complex things. And if people didn't move on to bigger and better things BEFORE they mastered the basics, then no one would be beyond drawing straight lines or perfect ellipses. I know personally that some of the things I've drawn that I'm most proud of were things I never thought I'd be able to do in the moment but just went in anyways. The mistakes I make make me laugh anyways, so it's an interesting time! Tracking your progress: I keep a public instagram progress account and post whenever I have stuff to post (ie whenever I practice). Not only is it a good way to keep progress but is a great way to train your mind to not post for the likes, since (assumedly) you won't like many of the drawings you put on there... but other people might. It's a nice way to get over the barrier that many social media people feel when they post something - that the post HAS to be perfect and HAS to be successful, which is a problematic mindset. And if you post everyday, you'll start getting on the algorithm's good side.
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Jesse Yao
That was really inspiring! Personally I've always had a hard time finding art parents so all those resources that you guys mentioned seem really interesting to me. It was also really surprising to know that James went to UC Berkeley, since I'm a student there right now (finishing up freshman year) :D
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Jesse Yao
Time from my last post til now: LANDMARKS! They scared the hell out of me and they still do. The jump from having gesture drawings to now seemingly having muscles all over the place terrified me but I eventually just put my nose to the paper and forced myself to do it, and this is what came out. The top row was me trying the figure myself before getting confused and watching then following stan, and the bottom row is a gesture drawing and then a landmark thing beside it. Any feedback appreciated! @Liandro @Diego Lucia @Jesper Axelsson
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Jesse Yao
From the time of my last post to now: I'm very lucky to be friends with someone who's my age and goes to artcenter and even more lucky to have him as a private mentor. Under his instruction I've started doing less 2 minute poses and more 1, 5, and 10 minute poses, which makes it kind of awkward for me to post all of them at once. The 1 minute poses will be on the main post, and the 5 and 10 minute poses will be on separate replies under this post. I'll talk about each of the time limits as I get to them. As for 1 minute, I didn't expect it to be so short. In my head I was like "oh its double 30 seconds thats forever" but then actually trying it I ran out of time super quickly. I started to get a handle on the time but still struggle with drawing the gesture of the legs from the front or the back. I remember the "2 c curves for the leg from the front" tip Stan said, but am still really shaky with legs in general. Any tips? As always, feedback appreciated! @Liandro @Diego Lucia @Jesper Axelsson
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Jesse Yao
10 minute: Here's a 10 minute. I got completely lost on what to do after 6 minutes since I felt like there was literally nothing left to be done that I knew how to do. Obviously there's shading and facial features but instead in that time I just kinda drew over lines, which wasn't the best idea bc it made it look unnecessarily messy. My friend said there's a problem with balance in most of these drawings (1, 5, 10 min regardless) - would you agree?
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Jesse Yao
5 minutes: I lost some of the 5 minute ones bc of bad organization, but here are the ones I still have (there were only 4 of them in total and I found 2 of them, so not missing out on much). These drawings I did right after going over landmarks and it REALLY helped my drawings look like they have volume. It helped that the legs weren't in front or back positions either so I knew how to actually draw them. Though I feel like I could've done a lot more in 5 minutes than just this. Speed is something I should work on
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Jesse Yao
Regular 2 minutes: woops I forgot I actually did some 2 minute gestures. They're questionable but here they are, with some other exercises I put on the page bc I got tired of neatly sectioning things out I guess (and a 10 minute drawing on the last page that will be in another reply for the 10 minute drawings). Legs again, a challenge. Any feedback appreciated!
IMG 1505
IMG 1506
IMG 1465
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