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added comment inHas anyone mastered gesture drawing via online learning/books only?
Hey @artpunk! Only you can know what you need from your education, everyone learns differently. In-person instruction may be something that really helps you learn, and helps your art progress, so it might be worth looking into and saving up for a workshop or an in-person drawing class somewhere to get some variety in your education. That said, we have a large community of learning artists right here, all at various stages in the pursuit of mastery. If you post some of your work from the course projects you can ask for feedback, or just post some of your personal work in your album or community pages so we can get an idea of where you are in your learning and help point you in the right direction. Nothing we're here to learn can be mastered in a few months, and I'd argue gesture isn't really something to be "mastered" it's something that you will continue to learn and develop over time. The people who have seemingly "mastered" gesture have really just mastered fundamental drawing skills. Stan, and Michael Hampton are incredible draftsmen, and it took them years of intense training, and a lot drawing to develop their skill set, so give yourself some time to get comfortable with the fundamentals and your gestures will follow. Hope to see some of your work! Keep drawing and don't forget to have fun!
@artpunk
1yr
Thanks Patrick!
I’m a few months into practicing gesture drawing and my attempts pretty much suck. I’ve watched and re-watched Proko as well as Michael Hampton and the logic in their approaches make sense but when I put pencil to paper the results are just sad.
I think I need an actual in person instructor at this point to help steer me forward and keep from getting discouraged. Art classes in Los Angeles are expensive though. Has anyone here actually mastered gesture / figure drawing without going to in person art classes and studying under a real mentor? If so, I’d love to hear about your process.
@artpunk
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1yr
Asked for help
Can the overhand grip be used on a flat surface or is this technique more common/effective when using an easel? Wondering if I should be utilizing it or just stick with pencil grip for now as I’m drawing on a flat surface.
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1yr
Overhand grip gives you a wider variation of line, it's worth putting the mileage into learning how to get comfortable with it. It's going to feel weird for a while, but if you stick with it even for a few minutes each day you'll get much more comfortable with it over time. The angle of the surface you're drawing on will definitely change how each grip feels, so you need to experiment with what angles work best for you.
I'd recommend not drawing on a flat surface. Introducing an incline your drawing surface will help you with both overhand and tripod pencil grips. A few hardcover books under the back edge of your sketch book will help get it closer to a proper viewing angle, or using a drawing board and resting it against a table edge on your knees so you can see your picture while drawing. It doesn't have to be 90 degrees upright like a painting easel, but any inclination is better than drawing on a flat surface. Drawing on a flat surface messes with your perspective of the drawing surface and leads to stretched proportions, as well as potential neck and back issues from craning your neck over a flat surface. A slight incline will give you a better view of the drawing surface, and open up your range of movement in the shoulder so you can make longer smoother gestural lines.
Most people switch between these grips a lot while drawing a piece so don't feel like you need to commit to using one or the other the whole time, but with practice you'll start to instinctively know when to use each grip. Hope this helps!
Siv Nilsen
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2yr
I also struggled with drawabox as it was too repetitive and dry for me. I found Proko to be an alternative! For perspective lessons I downloaded Marshall's video lessons (from 1994) and otherwise it might be worth buying a book or two on perspective (not bought any myself yet).
Otherwise I think the content on here gives you what you need in my opinion. I went to art school and I have learned a lot more about drawing here on this platform than what I did there!
Thank you Siv! That’s another recommendation for Marshall’s perspective lessons so I will definitely give them a try. I remember Stan mentioning in a podcast with Marshall that he was going to do a perspective class here but I guess that never came to fruition.
@vonun
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2yr
Hi
I did the lessons up to lesson 6 with official critiques of draw a box.
Btw I didn't go to art school so I can't really tell you if they go over such things or not. But well I do have my share of experience with draw a box.
Right now I'm finding exercises and much more to help me studie, because I had the same problem with draw a box as you have. I don't recommend just to try to tough it out, but to take your time with it and maybe take breaks from it if you need it.
I would recommend you to go on marshall vandruffs website and buy his old perspective course. It is old....really old and it shows in the video quality but still a treasure trove of knowlege. As for exercises well mashall once did a stream....you can find it also on his website and it's a free video. there were 3 exercises that I found really good.
here is the link for his coure: https://marshallart.com/SHOP/all-products/all-videos/1994-perspective-drawing-series/
and here is the link for the exercises: https://marshallart.com/SHOP/all-products/all-videos/drawing-forum-and-qa-lessons-in-perspective-recorded-webinar/
Hi vonun, thanks for the thoughtful response. I will definitely check out those Vandruff lessons!
Henrique Romão Saito
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2yr
Yes, there are alternatives, but draw a box really does make your path easier than if you had to read a book on the subject, for beginners on perspective I really don't see a better alternative, and it really helps if you want to start with more complicated books like "How to draw" by Scott Robertson.
Thanks for sharing your experience. With the advice from yourself and Izak, I will continue on with drawabox and try and see it through.
Izak van Langevelde
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2yr
In my opinion, drawabox is great for developing eye-hand coordination: I really wish I had known about this in animation school, where I realised my motor skills sucked big time, while my teachers kept repeating that I should draw more. However, after the first fistful of exercises, drawabox is less useful. The value of Drawabox is not in drawing boxes.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I figure I will at least finish the 250 box challenge and then see if I can keep going.
I’m about half way through the 250 box challenge in the Drawabox series and am starting to find it really uninspiring. At the same time I am working through the new fundamentals course here and really enjoying it.
I know I need to focus on the fundamentals taught in Drawabox but also know that most of the great artists I admire did not do this course so there must be alternatives.
So my questions are: Do art students go through something similar to draw a box in art school meaning I should just tough it out? Is there another course/methodology for teaching the same principles that might be less boring and repetitive?
@artpunk
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2yr
Unless I missed it, this seems to be the first lesson on a technique that doesn’t give any technical advice on how to actually make a tapered stroke.
One observation from this video and the following videos is that Stan seems to be using a pencil with a more rounded tip than when doing final detail work. Is a not-so-sharp pencil ideal for tapered strokes?
After some experimenting, it seems tapered strokes can be achieved with less pressure at the beginning of the line and more pressure in the middle than back to less pressure for the “taper” when using the tripod grip. When using overhand grip it seems that angle of pencil comes more into play in giving additional control.
All of this seem right? Any technical tips from you taper stroke ninjas would be great!
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2yr
Please watch the 6 Habits for Good Line Quality lesson. Specifically the "Follow Through" and "Ghosting" techniques should help you with executing a tapered stroke.
I feel the same way. I'm unclear on how to make a tapered stroke, too. I'm only able to taper the end of my stroke if I make a smooth, pulling motion and longer lines. If Proko could offer more detail on how to make a tapered line that would be much appreciated. Perhaps a video that is zoomed out, so we can see what his arm is doing. Otherwise, this lesson is lost on me.
In my experience, the overhand grip allows you to separate the location of your medium, using shoulder and elbow, from its orientation/character, using wrist and fingers. The latter is particularly relevant when using a softer medium, like charcoal or Conté, on an easel. In addition, I see it as a teaching tool, forcing students to separate the two mechanics. Once you get it, anything goes. I know people drawing really well from the dreaded monkey paw, which I do not recommend at all for beginners. And, of course, using a stylus on a tablet changes everything.
